Mr. WOLD. One-fourth of it was used on acquisition, and threefourths on other emergency work.

Mr. SILCOX. That is, we had about 14,000 people allocated to us to take care of under the emergency program, exclusive of emergency conservation work.

Mr. WOLD. That is right.

Mr. SILCOX. And part of this is the additional overhead approved through the regular process of the budget limitation on overhead to carry that E. R. A. work.

Mr. TARVER. Is it principally used in the employment of personnel? Mr. SILCOX. Yes, primarily, and then travel.

Mr. TARVER. What proportion of it is used for the payment of salaries and expenses of personnel, and what proportion of it is used for other expenses?

Mr. SILCOX. Ninety percent of it is used for salaries.

Mr. TARVER. Have you had sufficient personnel adequately to carry on the program during the present fiscal year?

Mr. SILCOX. On the emergency work, but what it has done is to stretch our regular organization to the limit. We have direct or general supervision over between 1,000 and 1,100 C. C. C. camps embracing approximately 200,000 enrollees and supervisary personnel and 14,000 people under the E. R. A. program. That makes about 214,000 people to plan work for, to supervise, and to look after generally, and, in spite of anything that you can do, you cannot get trained men at once, so that the regular personnel must carry an additional load.

Mr. TARVER. But you have sufficient personnel to function efficiently during the present year?

Mr. SILCOX. Yes; but only because of the personnel paid from emergency funds.

Mr. TARVER. If there is to be no enlargement of the program, why is it necessary to have this additional money for the same purpose? Mr. SILCOX. That is getting to the point that I want to cover.

The total overhead cost of the Forest Service at the present time as compared with total regular appropriations is about 3 percent in Washington, and it is perfectly clear that, with the size of this organization, the Washington office is undermanned, and I propose an increase there to give us an overhead of 3.48 percent of our total regular appropriation, exclusive of emergency funds, to operate the Washington office, to cover inspection, supervision, technical direction, and so on.

SUMMARY OF ALL INCREASES REQUESTED FOR FOREST SERVICE

Mr. TARVER. The committee is very much impressed with the fact that your estimates for 1937, as shown on page 199 of the bill, show an increase of $5,457,208 over the appropriation for 1936, which was $11,700,125, or a percentage increase of approximately 46%1⁄2 percent, which, as you of course will readily appreciate, is a tremendous increase, especially in times like these when we ought to be endeavoring to bring about a reduction in the regular expenditures of the Government rather than an increase.

Of course, that statement has reference to many other items of your estimates besides the one we are now discussing, but I am calling

attention to it at this time in order that, as we go along, you may make as clear as possible the reasons which are thought to justify this tremendous increase in the amount of your appropriation.

Mr. SILCOX. Summarized briefly, Mr. Chairman, the increase of $5,457,208 consists of (1) $1,000,000 for the Plains Shelterbelt project which will be dealt with later as a separate and special item. (2) $232,500 is for strengthening the central office organization, which as stated before, has a smaller appropriation in 1936 than was available 15 years ago, despite a large increase in the area of national forests and a tremendous increase in the importance of forestry in the national, soical, and economic structure. (3) $3,696,758 is for the administration, protection, and development of the nationalforest properties. Of this amount, $2,555,748 represents the reestablishment of appropriations on the level which existed in 1932, leaving $1,141,010 as the amount of increase over and above the highest previous appropriation. The increase of $3,696,758 is urgently needed to place the administration, protection, and development of the national forests on a basis commensurate with the importance of these public properties. (4) $311,000 is for the various classes of forest research. The depression has emphasized more than ever the importance of scientific study and analysis of factors influencing the growing, protection, harvesting, and marketing of forest products. (5) $166,950 is for cooperation with the States in the protection of forests and for the encouragement of tree planting on State and private land. (6) $50,000 is for the acquisition of land on the Uinta and Wasatch National Forests, which was authorized by the act of August 26, 1935. Under the arrangement proposed, the States actually contribute 35 cents out of every dollar which is used for the purchase of these lands.

The above general summary classifies the increase of $5,457,208 into six rather broad classifications. Basically, Mr. Chairman, the reason for this increase is that we shrunk the Forest Service down after the 1932 reductions to the point where you have ranger districts today that are 12 and 30 miles long. That is, a man is covering an area in these forests that is a trip from here to Baltimore, and 12 miles wide, as a ranger district, and it is simply physically impossible for this man to keep contact with the people who use the forests or to do any kind of a reasonable job.

In Germany the total area handled by some rangers is 1,500 acres. In the United States we have over 200,000 acres.

Now, our fire-protective system, for which we have come to Congress each year for deficiency appropriations, runs from $1,000,000 to 2 or 3 million dollars a year on fires that get away and that have to be fought.

We

What I want to do with this money here is to strengthen the whole appropriation and try to offset that deficiency appropriation. cannot do it unless we get to these fires when they are small.

HOW THE INCREASE FOR GENERAL ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES WILL BE USED

Mr. TARVER. What increase in the number of your personnel in Washington is contemplated under the item "General administrative expenses"?

Mr. SILCOX. Practically all of that is for salaries. There are about 134 people now in Washington connected with the entire Forest Service to supervise, make field trips and inspect this work, and so on, and my proposal there is to increase that by 61 people.

Mr. TARVER. Employed principally in the District of Columbia? Mr. SILCOX. They are employed in a whole reorganization of the Washington office and subdivisions.

Now, in justification of the actual net increase of $232,500 requested for "General administrative expenses" the following points are presented in summary form for ready consideration. They are amplified in various places throughout the record:

1. The very immensity of the Forest Service job which might be overlooked is indicated in part by

(a) 10 percent of the land area of the continental United States is within the boundaries of the national forests and purchase units, and is thus under the direct supervision of the Forest Service. As blocked out on the map shown to the committee, copy of which was placed, at the request of the chairman, in the booklets furnished each member of the committee, this area for which the Forest Service has administrative responsibility is greater by far than the total combined area of 15 of the States. There are single national forests, under one supervisor, which are larger than states the size of Connecticut; and ranger districts half the size of Rhode Island.

(b) 32 percent of the land area of the continental United States is primarily of value for forestry purposes. The Forest Service has been authorized and directed by various acts of Congress to promote the best use of this area through technical advice, research, cooperation in fire protection, cooperative planting of trees, et cetera. On an average 40,000,000 acres of this area are still burned over by forest fires each year.

(c) 13,000,000 head of domestic livestock graze on the national forests.

(d) 75 percent of the big-game animals west of the Great Plains graze on the national forests.

(e) 70,000 miles of fishing streams are located within the national forests.

(f) Excepting the telephone system of the American Telephone & Telegraph, the Forest Service with its more than 50,000 miles of lines has, it is believed, the largest mileage of telephone communications in the country.

(g) The total stand of timber on the national forests is estimated to be 552,000,000,000 board feet.

2. Only 3 percent of the total regular appropriation is allotted for the overhead cost of the Forest Service in Washington at present. The request is to raise this allotment to 3.48 percent of the regular Forest Service appropriation recommended by the Budget for the fiscal year 1937. There is critical need for this sum to provide adequate inspection, supervision, technical direction and general administration. Other bureaus doing roughly comparable classes of work have had for years, and have no doubt needed, a higher precentage of their regular allotments for this purpose.

3. The Forest Service overhead problem differs from that of many other agencies, because much of its work can only be done properly in the field. In order to make this possible, supervisory officers must

absent themselves from desks in Washington and get out in the woods where they belong for extended periods each year. They must, therefore, in order to keep the work going have assistants who can alternate with them in office and field.

4. The appropriation for this purpose was greater 14 years ago than the $358,300 available for 1936 (in 1923, $373,750; in 1925, $396,168). But, despite the decrease in these funds during this period, a tremendous increase in the work load-and responsibilitieshas been caused by such items as the following (this is not an allinclusive list):

(a) 16,000,000 acres have been added to the national forests during this period. This is 91⁄2 percent of the total net area of the national forests today a very high percentage compared with the 31⁄2 percent of the total appropriation which is requested for the Washington office.

(b) The above increase in acreage has been accompanied by a corresponding increase in field personnel; the increase being made by devoting during these years all increases in regular operating funds to the strengthening of the field forces. The small Washington force is now attempting to plan and supervise the activities of some 23,000 field employees, including 2,819 regular employees, 4,236 regular and emergency fire guards, and 15,982 employees engaged in supervisory, technical, and facilitating work under the emergency program, but excluding more than 225,000 C. C. C. enrollees and E. R. A., transient and other classes of temporary laborers working under the jurisdiction of the Forest Service. These increases both in national forest area and in field personnel have not been accompanied by any corresponding increase for Washington administrative expense.

(c) The economic pressure of the times, accentuated in the range country by the cumulative effect of subnormal rainfall for some 15 years, has increased the work load by its effect on national forest range and grazing administration problems: (1) It has greatly increased the demand for national forest range by old established local communities and such demands must be met insofar as possible if the communities in question are to survive; (2) combined with this situation, the drought has made range management more difficult if proper use of the range is to be obtained and erosion prevented.

(d) There has been an estimated increase of more than 43,000,000 users of national forests for recreation during this period, an increase of nearly 300 percent. This has been due to more roads, more cars, and more time available; to the low cost of recreation in these areas and the general trend in this country to go to the forests for rest and recreation. The Forest Service has not been able to properly meet its responsibilities resulting from this heavy increase in recreational use. (e) Stimulating action taken under article X of the lumber code before N. R. A. was declared unconstitutional, and increased interest by the public in forest conditions in this country have developed an insistent demand from timberland owners, the States and the general public that the Forest Service should provide more and better assistance and cooperation in obtaining satisfactory forest practices on privately owned timberlands. To date this vitally important function of the Washington staff has been handled on a part-time basis by men whose other activities have required most of their time. Better economic use of more than 400,000,000 acres of forest land are involved.

It

There is an insistent and articulate public demand that wildlife management on the national forests be given greater attention. is one of our major resources as indicated in items 1 (d) and 1 (e) above. The supervision and planning of this work in Washington is also being handled now on a part-time basis only by men whose other activities demand most of their time.

(g) Increased use of the forests, as illustrated in item 4 (d) above, the cumulative effect of the drought of the past some 15 years in the West, and additions to the national forests have vastly increased the magnitude of the job of protecting the forests from fires. Costs of prevention, preparedness and suppression in one year recently exceeded $6,800,000. Within the past 3 years, Congress has approved deficiency appropriations of more than $4,150,000 in one year for fire fighting purposes. The heavy responsibility of supervising activities as costly as this, obviously demands more attention than the part time which a division in Washington primarily engaged in other work has heretofore been able to devote to it.

5. A further point justifying the request for additional funds for the Washington office is the need for more inspection. Inadequate inspection, it is feared, may result in losses many times greater than the total cost of the Washington organization.

6. This item has been developed with the aid of the Secretary of Agriculture, the Civil Service Commission, and the Budget. Each within their province has given it their full approval.

7. The question may be asked: "Under the appropriation for the Washington office for fiscal year 1936 has the work of the Forest Service been satisfactorily done?" The answer is "No," as indicated or definitely stated for some of the activities, in the items listed above. We "got by" with the help of emergency funds and deficiency appropriations, but the regular appropriation was inadequate.

ADMINISTRATION OF STATE AND PRIVATE FORESTRY ACTIVITIES

I have set up, as I said, a division to head up our work in State and private forestry. There are some 400,000,000 acres, and some of the situations that I was telling you about yesterday, in Louisiana, and in the Cheat River valley of West Virginia and all over the country have not been handled. We had not touched that area, but have been mostly handling the national forests job, and from the standpoint of the future economic welfare of the country, those timber stands that are left there ought to be handled so that those communities will have some semblance of permanence.

Then we have an area embracing 43,000 people in Michigan, 20,000 of whom can be taken care of without getting on relief by the combination of agriculture and forest products. One big private concern owns a part of that area that I am referring to, where there is already too much mill capacity.

Mr. UMSTEAD. What can you do about it if it is privately owned? Mr. SILCOX. We can do this about it: We can persuade a number of these companies to go on a sustained yield basis; that is, currently cut the crop at the time that it is produced.

I have one striking illustration, of an area of 500,000 acres privately owned, and there are 1,500 farmers scattered throughout that area. We do not have to put them there; they are already there. Now, if