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the demands of program changes and accelerated conversions through a well-planned requirements program.

The success of our entire program is greatly attributed to the fine support and understanding of this committee. Like the regular establishment however, our program is subject to changes in missions and equipment which generate revised construction and funding requirements highlighted by our recent conversion to century series and cargo-type aircraft.

For this reason it is important that we maintain a current appraisal of our missions and essential support. The program before you was developed on this basis and concept. If you have any questions, I am at your service.

(The charts referred to follow :)

Present facilities
A. Flying bases :

Permanent training--
Permanent training with tactical units---


loroge ngel I woord


------- ------------
Air Force bases---
Navy bases---


B. Nonflying bases :

A.C. & W.-radio relay-communications construction squadron-------- 42


Completed and in progress through fiscal year 1960_----
Programed (fiscal year 1961)------
Fiscal year 1962 through fiscal year 1964.-

Millions $230. O

7.2 55.0

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Total, fiscal year 1961.---

13.4 138 Joint Use (Navy-AF-Reserve).

Senator STENNIS. While you have those figures up here, what do you designate as add-on now, $6.2 million ?

That'was the new part of your program? General WILSON. Yes, sir, that is the part that is not at an exact location, sir, is not firm at this time. As happened in the last month, I think your committee here is familiar with the testimony.

Senator STENNIS. Yes, we have had that, but we will run into trouble now unless we have a firm-up of these locations. What can you do about it?

General WILSON. Well, I have the locations that I have suggested. Since we are tied very close to the Air Defense Command, I am trying to get their approval of these locations or any recommended changes that they would like.

Senator STENNIS. Mr. Clerk, let them know that we want to know about these locations. They say it is part of the Air Defense now. Let's see.

Senator ENGLE. How does it happen that you are going into a construction program here with various airports listed, I see quite a list of them, over $7 million worth, and yet we are giving up airports all over the country. It seems to me that it is rather strange that we have to be building others when we are dropping airbases.

General Wilson. That would be a fine idea to move them, but remember reservists you can't pick up and move.

You are located at a base. You have spent millions of dollars training people. You have already got facilities in these bases. With the exception of one place all of these are modifications to existing facilities that are already there with people, trained and ready to go. This is just bringing them up to date; if you could move reservists and pick them up and move them and say “You get a job in this community," then we could use existing facilities, but where you can't, you have already got the facilities in existence, with the exception of one in this program we are modifying existing facilities due to change in missions.

Senator STENNIS. You have to take your program to the men rather than the men to your program.

General WILSON. Remember you are depending on their availability to make your program flexible.

Senator ENGLE. Which one is the one you are building?

General WILSON. The only one that is new in this program is Jackson, Miss., where we have had a unit that has been located on Hawkins Field, which we have never built at present a single facility there. The airport by order of the Joint Use Airport Panel of the FAA and Department of Defense, the Department of the Air Force, that there will be no Federal money expended on that field, that they must build a new one. The new one is under construction, and this is something that we have had programed at the time that the new facility was available to meet our requirements for the unit we presently have at Jackson.

Senator STENNIS. In other words, the city is building an entirely new municipal airport? General WILSON. That is correct, sir.

Senator STENNIS. And the old one won't be available because they are really using it to help finance the new one, I mean the real estate. General WILSON. Yes, sir.

Senator ENGLE. They are making a housing development out of it, aren't they?

Senator STENNIS. I don't know what they are making but they are going to sell it for a substantial part of the cost of the new one, but the new one will run up into big money.

General WILSON. Yes; we never built any facility at the old airport. This is the first facility we have built for this unit since it has been going, in almost 6 years.

Senator ENGLE. What airplanes do you use?

General WILSON. Right now we have in the guard, we will take the latest one, the F-104, F-102 is coming this year, we have F-100's, F-89J's, F-86VL’s, we have the 84F, the RB-57, the C-119, the C-123

N. Ved up into antial phat they

and C-97 heavy transports, C-47's, pretty much the gauntlet of what is in the active Air Force.

Senator STENNIS. Senator Cannon?
Senator CANNON. What are you using for this Air Med squadron?
General WILSON. That is equipped with the C-119, sir.
Senator CANNON. What is the total cost of that installation ?

General Wilson. The total cost of that is going to run we estimate around $2.6 million.

Senator CANNON. And aren't there any other military facilities there in that general area that are being given up now?

General WILSON: No; there is not.
Senator STENNIS. You mean Jackson?
General Wilson. In the Jackson area: yes.

Senator CANNON. How many installations is the Air Force giving up this year?

General WILSON. I am not familiar with that; in that I know of none that would be in the vicinity of Jackson. We have some 600 people, officers and men in the unit there. I now know of no facility available in that area where they could be moved.

Senator CANNON. How long has this unit been in operation ?
General WILSON. That unit has been in operation about 5 years.
Senator CANNON. Are you making any runway installations there?
General WILSON. No, sir. The city is paying for all that.
They have donated some 60 acres of land for our facility.

We are not buying any land, and we have the free right and use of the field at no cost.

Senator CANNON. I have nothing further.

Senator STENNIS. I know you had a hangar. It is not involved in this bill now, but your hangar that you need so badly in Honolulu; do you have something on that new this year?

General Wilson. Yes; that hangar went under contract on a reduced scope within the amount of money that we had.

Senator STENNIS. You have gotten that disposed of?
General WILSON. It is all cleared; yes, sir.

Senator STENNIS. Is there any other point that you want to bring out here?

General WILSON. No, sir; except to thank this committee for its fine attention that it has given the Air Guard. We think we have got something that you can be proud of. I think the guard has been leading the way for quite a few years, for several years in using the training dollar, not only to train but also to carry on active Air Force missions in peacetime.

Senator ENGLE. Would you tell me how long do these fellows maintain their competence, their combat capability? It seems to me that after a fellow gets along a ways he is not going to do so well in those high performance airplanes ?

General Wilson. Well, you have a law now called Reserve Officer Personnel Act, under that a guy is promoted out of the guard unit when he reaches a certain age and years of service and you have to bring in some from the bottom. For example the average age of our tactical pilots flying the jets is 28.9 years which is just about the same as the active establishment. It has decreased from 32.1 in 1954 to around 28. It will vary between 28 and 30 which we think is a fine age.

Senator ENGLE. What becomes of these older fellows? General WILSON. They are promoted out of the unit and into the Reserve program, where they go into either a pool or, if they can find a job, in the Air Force Reserve flying unit.

Senator ENGLE. Just like the jet jockies in the regular field establishment in that if they can go up as field officers they go right ahead? General Wilson. That is correct. Senator ENGLE. Thank you.

Senator STENNIS. What about those locations ? That is going to give us trouble unless you can get something in here and those locations approved, that is your $6.2 million.

General Wilson. That's right. Our normal program is $7 million plus, and this add-on is $6.2 million based on this new program. I am not sure that this program has been completely settled in the Congress yet, as to what they are going to do with the air defense portion. I don't know, sir.

Senator STENNIS. This matter now, the $6.2 million is not tied to the BOMARC changes?

General WILSON. It is tied to the new air defense program; the F-102's are coming out of the active establishment into the guard.

Senator STENNIS. They have been testifying here about that, but I find now that it has not been approved by the Department of Defense.

General WILSON. That is correct, sir; this has been submitted. All I can say is that the Air Force has submitted this to the Department of Defense. As to what action has been taken I am not yet familiar.

Senator STENNIS. Well, is there someone here for the Air Force who can tell us what—who do you represent?

Mr. DEININGER. I am W.R. Deininger, Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Properties and Installations. I can tell you this, sir, with respect to this $6.2 million program. That as of last Friday, the Assistant Secretary of Defense, Properties and Installations, sent a communication back to Air Force saying that the program was returned without action because of the fact that the additional authorization when added to what is now in the bill for the Air Guard, since there would be no further funding made available as of this time, would increase the authorization beyond the scope that is allowable.

Senator STENNIS. In other words, turned it down?

Mr. DEININGER. Yes; that's right, not because we were out of sym. pathy with the program, it was a matter of financing the additional authorization if it were written into law. General Wilson. That is news to me.

Senator STENNIS. Is that your testimony now before the committee here, official testimony representing the Department of Defense?

Mr. DEININGER. Yes, sir; I can advise you officially of that.
Senator STENNIS. What do you have to say to that now?

General WILSON. The only thing I can say to that is if we get these aircraft, which it looks like it is in a pretty firm position, I am either going to have to have the construction or not iake the aircraft. There is no need of having airplanes on the field if you can't put the missiles on them to fire.

Senator STENNIS. I thought this had been agreed on, gentlemen. This comes as a surprise to me. I don't mean you have misled us but I thought you had approved it.

Mr. DEININGER. Could I say just one more word on that? In the communication back to Air Force, we suggested that when these locations can be identified specifically, and that the actual availability of the aircraft is firmed up, that we would certainly entertain requests from the Air Force for approval of these as emergency projects under the emergency authority that Congress has put in the hands of the Secretary of Defense.

Senator STENNIS. You mean as to money?

Mr. DEININGER. It would have to be financed out of the appropriations that are made available for 1961. It would be at the expense of some of the other line items that are not in the bill.

Senator STENNIS. In the bill for the Air Force or for the Air National Guard ?

General Wilson. Mr. ChairmanMr. DEININGER. For the Air National Guard. General Wilson. We have a very small appropriation this year. I don't see how I could defer Jackson, for example.

Senator ENGLE. It is a very modest request, the entire amount. Senator STENNIS. $6.2 million. General WILSON. We have always tried to tie our construction requirements to the requirements of new aircraft and new missions.

Senator STENNIS. Giving all these reasons now reminds me about those two colored boys going down the street in Memphis and they met a third boy and he told them “Cone on go down with us to Beale Street and we will shoot some craps.” He said "I can't go for three reasons. The first reason is I haven't got any money," and they said “You need not give your other reasons."

If you don't get any money you don't need to give your other reasons here.

All right, I think you had better give us a little more detailed testimony here. We might want to move in on this.

General WILSON. I will be glad to furnish anything you want, Mr. Chairman.

Senator STENNIS. You can give us the locations now as far as you are concerned, can you not?

General Wilson. Yes, sir.

Senator STENNIS. And it is to take care-go over it again—to take care of what programs? Describe it a little further.

General WILSON. This is to take care of the program that has been discussed with the Congress in the Air Defense, and we are discussing the 14 locations shelters, aircraft, weapons, calibration, those are buildings for the calibration of the GAR-1 and GAR-2 weapons that are the fire control system of the airplane, that is on the 102, sir, rocket storage assembly, in other words we have got to have a place to assemble the rockets and test them at 8 locations.

We have them at six. We will have to modify the six existing ones we have, and some various maintenance docks, five of them. Now this maintenance dock does not tie in to the Air Defense, but this is on the conversion that happened about 6 months ago on the C-97 that came into the guard which we just converted six squadrons, but that.

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