reference to that. It is not on your list or anything like that. I just wanted you to tell us about it, whether or not you are familiar with the situation there? General McGOWAN. Yes, sir, I am. Senator STENNIS. What about the merits? Do they have a good strong unit there and do they have a firm need for an armory? General McGoWAN. They have a very fine unit and have had a fine unit there for a great many years. They do need an armory. They meet all the requirements, and it was not earlier included in the programed list because they had difficulty arranging for a proper site for the armory, and we have been advised by the State of Pennsylvania that that has been resolved, and that from the viewpoint of the State they are anxious to get the armory. The information is only a week old. Senator STENNIS. I remember in years past, you do have some of these that get under the wire right at the last. General MCGOWAN. Yes, sir. It is a very fine project, and quite valid from every viewpoint. Senator STENNIS. I mean they get under the wire in making their local arrangements and providing for the money and all? And sometimes we go back and pick them up, and let them go on through rather than wait another budget year. General McGOWAN. Yes, sir. Senator STENNIS. Do you think it is all merit in connection with that project then and it should be included in consideration of this? General MCGOWAN. I believe it is a meritorious project and it should be included if it meets the wishes of the committee. Senator STENNIS. What is the amount involved in that one, Plymouth, Pa.? General McGoWAN. The estimated Federal cost of the project at Plymouth is $185,000. Senator STENNIS. You have got a training proposition here at Camp Stewart, Ga., and you have a small amount that I understand you need down at Camp Shelby in Mississippi. I don't like to sponsor any project here that is outside the budget that is for my home State, but this is a matter that is regional, a regional project, where the guard comes there to train from several States. I do know as a matter of personal knowledge you have had a mighty hard time getting a little money down there for the facilities they do have. I have a memorandum here about Fort Stewart and about Camp Shelby; we had some slight developments there within the last 2 years. I don't know just what the mess hall, I believe, was one thing built, and some latrines perhaps. You have housing there according to my memorandum roughly for 3 battalions, and at Fort Stewart you have 30 company-size messhalls and 7 latrines. This was a start of the development of camp facilities to house the equivalent of a major portion of an infantry division at Camp Shelby and an armored division at Camp Stewart. We will have to ask you to excuse us as there is a vote. We will get back as soon as we can. I will finish that question. The National Guard annual training schedules will make full use of both locations for at least three cycles of training each summer. We have had this first increment of the construction, and I want you to tell us now what are the most urgent additional needs there for CampStewart and this Camp Shelby with reference to your construction plans. That will be the question when I get back. (Short recess.) Senator STENNIS. Senator Kefauver is going to come in. matter he is interested in. He has a General, now back to this construction down at Camp Shelby. What do you have to say there about Camp Stewart and Camp Shelby and just what are you proposing to develop there and what are your needs? General McGowAN. Both sites are similar, both are large training areas with in excess of 100,000 acres which permit firing all of our weapons in the infantry and armored division including tank guns, and in both cases the National Guard from several States train at those two sites. Those two sites along with Fort Bragg are probably the three best training areas of the 3d Army. Senator STENNIS. Camp Stewart, is that an active camp now, are you using it? General McGOWAN. Camp Stewart is an active post. Senator STENNIS. Camp Shelby is not? General McGOWAN. That is correct. Senator STENNIS. You just own the land and the underground facilities there, some of the utilities, but you use both of them for this special training. General MCGOWAN. They are both used in the same fashion, and the money we are putting into Fort Stewart, is to set up what is in essence a site big enough to take a National Guard armored or infantry division, by setting up only initially kitchen messhalls and latrines. Those buildings which were built there for World War II have deteriorated or were pulled down for that reason, and the underground utilities can no longer be used. We found it necessary if we are to continue to send National Guard troops there, and we must send them there, that we provide just the minimum living conditions. Senator STENNIS. What are those minimum conditions that you will need, assuming you are going to continue to take a division to each place? General McGoWAN. We have provided at Shelby latrines and messhalls for roughly six battalions. We should provide facilities, messhalls, kitchens, and latrines for 20 battalions before we are through there. It is a similar story over at Camp Shelby, a fine big training area; all the buildings were pulled down at the end of World War II. Since World War II the Army, however, has made that a railhead facility for mobilization purposes, and whatever we put into Camp Shelby for summer training will be there for the use of our mobilized divisions in time of war. There again we are putting in, we put in three battalion areas first, including concrete block centers in lieu of tentage, but the remaining of our construction would be to provide roughly messhalls and latrines for slightly more than half of a division. Now in each case we get several cycles of training with repeated usage in several training periods in the course of the summer. Senator STENNIS. In other words, you train the whole division there, but you don't have them all there at one time? General MCGOWAN. We do at Shelby, yes. We train more than the equivalent of a division, but in successive cycles. However, at Fort Stewart we do train two armored divisions plus the equivalent of another division there and nondivisional troops. Senator STENNIS. As you say, now, down at Camp Shelby you have already put in some of the basic utilities to have it for a quick buildup should you have an emergency of some kind. Now what do you need though to make it the essential minimum requirements for this area of National Guard training? How much money will it cost? And we will see how it breaks down over a 3- or 4-year program. General MCGOWAN. We should put into Shelby ultimately in the neighborhood of $5 to $6 million, and in Fort Stewart just a bit more than that. Senator STENNIS. How many years would you think that it should be extended over? You can't do all that at once. That is too much money. General McGowAN. They are desperately needed right now. would like to see it done in a 4- or 5-year period. We We would like to be able to put in about a million dollars there at a time rather than small increments of $500,000 to $600,000, because that will spread it over so long that we will have people living in substandard circumstances for all this period. Senator STENNIS. Now isn't this in your new program? General McGoWAN. This is new authorization. It is not in the authorization bill. Senator STENNIS. This is for training of your modernized National Guard? General McGOWAN. Yes. Senator STENNIS. This is your requirement for it. All right, there are two or three other items here that we have not asked you about. Abbeville, Ala., the House put in a $71,000 armory there. What is your response to that item? General McGowAN. They have a site. They have the matching funds. They meet their strength requirements. They have got about 100 men in the unit, and it is the second on the State priority list. Senator STENNIS. Are there any the bill now for Alabama? General MCGOWAN. There is none in the bill for Alabama; no, sir. Senator STENNIS. So if you are going to put in any for Álabama this would be No. 2 on the list; is that right? General McGoWAN. That is correct. Georgiana, which was mentioned earlier, is the No. 1 priority. Senator STENNIS. You know, General, some years some States you see just don't come within the priority list for that year because they already had some. Now Statesboro, Ga., the House added a $120,000 item there. What do you say to that one? General McGoWAN. On strength they have almost 200. They met the requirement for strength and they have the site and they have the matching funds. Senator STENNIS. How do they stack up on your priority list? ་ Senator STENNIS. So it meets all your requirements except you just didn't get it on your priority list; is that correct? General McGowAN. We did not put it on the priority list, Mr. Chairman, as was the case with many valid projects, because of the dollar limit on the extent of the list. Senator STENNIS. It is eligible and meets all requirements? General McGoWAN. Yes, sir. Senator STENNIS. If you had more of a dollar list you would put it in, is that right? General McGOWAN. That is correct, sir. Senator STENNIS. General, as I understood it, Senator Kefauver was coming right on down. He is interested in one of these armories here. Do you have any questions, either one of you? Senator CANNON. Yes, Mr. Chairman, on these two area training centers, that you mentioned a few moments ago, you said the facilities were torn down right after the war. What have you been doing since then? General McGoWAN. Living in tentage, in a tent camp. That is what we have been living in on the ground. Senator CANNON. Just training in combat conditions? General MCGOWAN. Well, I wouldn't describe it that way. When you are out under combat conditions in field bivouac, you are better off with much worse facilities than now exist in these training camps when you are living there in a constricted area. They must put some time in the base camp for part of their training, and the kitchens, latrines are just not operable or don't exist. Senator CANNON. But you have been using them up to this time? General McGowAN. Yes, sir. Senator CANNON. And getting along? General McGOWAN. Getting along is correct, sir; right. Senator STENNIS. Of course, now I don't know about Stewart, but you have expanded your operations down at Shelby quite a bit in the last few years, haven't you? General MCGOWAN. Yes, sir. Senator STENNIS. You are bringing in more and more men every year? General McGOWAN. That is correct. Senator STENNIS. And that is a large training area. You go out for some of that training under what conditions is it that you military men call it? General MCGOWAN. Field conditions. Senator STENNIS. You do kick them through the field conditions training then? General McGoWAN. They all spend a good part of their training period each summer out in bivouac conditions, but the point of both camps is that both of them are big enough that we can fire all the infantry weapons including the tank guns on those reservations, and we are having difficulty in many posts across the country to do that with the high velocity guns we now have. Senator STENNIS. And you just want now the minimum facilities to serve your men during the time that they are in this compact restricted area? General McGoWAN. That is correct, sir. Senator STENNIS. During the days they are there; is that correct? General McGOWAN. That is correct, sir. Senator STENNIS. Like kitchens and latrines and items of that kind? General McGowAN. They are very simple buildings. They are a minimum standard building which was first developed between the Air Guard and the Department of Defense, and we have adopted the same design, and we find that the upkeep is minimum, that actually in the end it will save us money all around. Senator STENNIS. All right, anything else? Do you have anything else now, General? General McGoWAN. No, thank you very much, sir. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you. Senator STENNIS. We appreciate your coming here. Do your staff members have anything they want to say before we go to something else? General MCGOWAN. NO. Senator STENNIS. Thank you very much. General Seeman, are you through? General SEEMAN. General Warren is here for the Army Reserve. Senator STENNIS. General Seeman, I want to remind you we have set this hearing for outside witnesses on Wednesday and we are going to have that Illinois-Massachusetts matter. We would like the Army to have someone here who is prepared to answer questions as well as ask questions perhaps. General SEEMAN. You did not want to hear General Warren and the Army Reserve centers? Senator STENNIS. We are going to hear them but I am telling you now what we will have on Wednesday. Come around, General. Do you have a statement now? General WARREN. Yes, sir. Senator STENNIS. All right, General, we are glad to have you here, sir. Proceed in your own way. TESTIMONY OF MAJ. GEN. FREDERICK M. WARREN, CHIEF, U.S. ARMY RESERVE AND ROTC AFFAIRS General WARREN. Mr. Chairman and distinguished members of the committee, I am Gen. Frederick Warren, Chief, Army Reserve and ROTC Affairs. It is my pleasure at this time to report on the Army Reserve construction program under chapter 133, title 10, U.S. Code. A graphic illustration, inclosure 1, shows that during the period fiscal year 1950 through 1958, 305 new centers had been started, and last year, fiscal year 1959, 86 centers were placed under contract. 54781-60-33 |