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There is one item, as shown on page 1, an enlisted man's barracks at Camp Hale, which is no longer required, so that has not been built. The other items have all been constructed.

Senator STENNIS. This $257,000, where you ran over; you are not going to ask for an appropriation on that, I suppose ? You pick it up some way, do you not, with money you already have ?

General SEEMAN. Yes, sir; that is right. We just need the authorization.

Senator STENNIS. You just want-
General SEEMAN. To defray those costs.
Senator STENNIS. Will that be true as to all these items?

General SEEMAN. No, sir; that is the only one that involves any claim of the contractor.

Senator STENNIS. All right. Next item.

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General SEEMAN. The next item is the construction of additional facilities at the Alternate Joint Communications Center. The outstanding authorization is for $10,354,000 the prior authorization is $6.3 million, requiring a deficiency of $4,054,000.

This is one of the highest priority items of the Department of Defense. It has been added in the funding plan. You will see it coming up as over the Army's ceiling, but within

Senator STENNIS. Which one is this you are talking about? What page is that?

General SEEMAN. Page 3.

Senator STENNIS. Yes, I thought so. You want to make the rest of this classified ?

General SEEMAN. There is nothing classified at the present time. In the funding plan when we come before you in appropriations this will be classified, there will be a classified discussion of this item, sir.

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General SEEMAN. The next one is Public Law 241 of the 85th Congress, starting on page 5, the Transportation Corps at Fort Eustis, Va.

Senator STENNIS. You are going to tell me something more about this $4 million item, are you not? You said it is not classified.

General SEEMAN. Additional authorization is required to permit expanding the various supporting utility systems at this communications center sufficiently to accommodate increased demands of water: and utilities, and there is an increase in mission over what it was conceived as about 4 or 5 years ago. It is going to extend the security period, I believe, by about 100 percent, the period when the installation can be secured and take care of more people since the reorganization and the increase in mission of this joint staff relative to the combined command.

Senator STENNIS. Is each service asking for an increase in their authorization?

General SEEMAN. No sir. This is for-
Senator STENNIS. You are the caretaker of all of them?

General SEEMAN. This is for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, sir, and the Department of Defense.

Senator STENNIS. Do you think this will finish it up?

General SEEMAN. This is the estimate now, sir, yes, subject to more damaging weapons or other things that may arise in the future.

Senator STENNIS. All right. Next item.

General SEEMAN. The next item is deficiencies in Public Law 241 of the 85th Congress. The first one is Fort Eustis on page 5. of these items have been constructed except the last one, and of the total outstanding authorization of $562,000, the requirement is for $747,000, requiring a deficiency of authorization of $185,000.

Senator STENNIS. Well, it would apply then on the barracks?

General SEEMAN. As you know, sir, in the authorizing act we are authorized on individual items to exceed the authorized limit by five percent.

Senator STENNIS. Yes.

General SEEMAN. However, in certain cases it must come out of the overall line item station authorization, and in some cases we are able to get them all built, and in some cases where there have been price rises over the years or new requirements for the using services which we cannot accommodate, we come back for a deficiency.

This last item which we have been unable to construct as yet is the enlisted women's barracks at Fort Eustis.

Senator STENNIS. All right.

General SEEMAN. The next item is indicated on page 11 and is the deficiency for Fort Devens, Mass.

There is the prior authorization which is $6,719,000, and the estimated cost at the present time is $7,354,000, which requires a deficiency authorization of $635,000.

Senator STENNIS. Why was that, why did that happen, General? General SEEMAN. Mr. Norwood ?

Mr. Norwood. One of the reasons, Mr. Chairman, was on the runways and runup areas, which is item No. 96.

The pavement design was changed, increasing the cost.

Such things as shoulders, not previously planned in the estimate, were included, and then the fact that construction costs have gone up in the years since the original estimate was made by 6 percent Senator STENNIS. When was it made for, this item ?

Mr. NORWOOD. For the 1958 program. It was made in 1957. It was 3 years ago.

Senator STENNIS. It seems to me like you have an unusual number of them this year, General. Is there any change that you made in your way of handling matters like this that caused you to have so many of them?

General SEEMAN. No, sir. Of the roughly $8 million, it is true that over $4 million is involved in that one AJCC item. I would say this is about average for a program of our size.

Senator STENNIS. All right, General.

General SEEMAN. At the present time; and we mention all these items that were in the original legislation, sir. Most of them are all built.

Senator STENNIS. Yes, I know.

General SEEMAN. It is just a question of the ones that got lost in the shuffle.

Senator STENNIS. It is a matter of presenting the picture.

General SEEMAN. Yes, sir.
Senator STENNIS. All right. Next item.
General SEEMAN. The next item is the 4th Army at Fort Bliss, Tex.,

page 22

Senator STENNIS. $409,000 out of $7,704,000.

General SEEMAN. Out of $7,704,000; yes, sir. Most of the items have been completed.

Senator STENNIS. Do you have other groupings that ran under your estimates?

General SEEMAN. Yes, sir; these items vary. We might just take up page 22, every one of these items went up slightly; on page 23 the estimated costs of the first one has gone down, the training facilities for guided missiles from $681,000 to $563,000.

The next one, the fifth item down, radio-controlled aerial target maintenance and assembly building and radio station went down from $141,000 to $95,000; another one went down from $67,000 to $59,000.

Senator STENNIS. What do you have beyond Fort Bliss ?

General SEEMAN. Beyond Fort Bliss we have the 2d session of the 85th Congress, Public Law 685, page 44 for Fort Meade.

Senator STENNIS. All right.

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General SEEMAN. These are items, the first three of which have been built. The fourth one, the train fire range has not been built and, Mr. Chairman, we call attention here that this is rather a sizable increase in the deficiency, and our only excuse is that the estimates for these train fire ranges when this concept came in first were very hasty.

They were made without benefit of a detailed reconnaissance of the ground, and in this one case at Fort Meade the averages did not pan out; the ground is quite rough and the estimate is for $383,000 at the present time.

Senator STENNIS. Well, your face ought to be red about this, General. That is a mighty high percent to be off.

General SEEMAN. Yes, I am very unhappy about this, sir; and you will see we have a similar one at Fort Bragg and a similar one at Fort Campbell. They were much the same character. They were the first stations, the high-priority stations, and we wanted to get the program going, and we made average-cost estimates which have proven incorrect.

Senator STENNIS. Is this still for your small planes ?
General SEEMAN. This is for the small arms training weapons.

Senator STENNIS. I see. Your train fire is the main item, but you have these airfield pavements. They all run

General SEEMAN. Yes, sir; they ran over their cost.
Senator STENNIS. All of them?
General SEEMAN. Yes, sir.

Senator STENNIS. Airfield paving and facilities, aircraft fuel, airfield lighting

General SEEMAN. That is correct.

Mr. NORWOOD. Mr. Chairman, I might mention that these designs have developed in Army aviation with this light aircraft just like the requirements for the Air Force planes have grown in the years since the Air Force started flying, and with development of new requirements.

Senator STENNIS. I know. But it is rather discouraging to run into such marked differences here. You gentlemen have so much experience in these fields.

All right, next item.

General SEEMAN. The next item is Fort Bragg, N.C., on page 49, sir, where the outstanding authorization is $762,000, and the total estimated cost is $1,059,000, making a deficiency of $297,000.

Here again it is the train-fire range that has not been built. Senator STENNIS. Now that train-fire range, what does that include ?

General SEEMAN. This is the range for the small arms where they have this realistic training, where a man goes through certain courses and there are pop-up targets by remote control, and the scoring is all by uniform

Senator STENNIS. He shoots from what; what does he shoot from?

General SEEMAN. He shoots sometimes from fixed ranges and sometimes from combat ranges. As he proceeds through a course there will be various pop-up targets, all remotely controlled, so he gets realistic training.

Senator STENNIS. What is he shooting with?

General SEEMAN. He is shooting with his personal arms, with his rifle.

Senator STENNIS. All right. Next item.

General SEEMAN. The next item on page 58 is Fort Campbell, Ky., and here again the deficiency is in the item of the train fire range. The motor repair shop is estimated at $8,000 less than the authorization.

Senator STENNIS. Yes; I can see that.
General SEEMAN. And the rest are very close.
Senator STENNIS. All right. Next item.

General SEEMAN. The last item is the Fort Meade item on page 63.

This, you will recall, is the one we had last year which had the emergency power facility for the National Security Agency.

The problem here, Mr. Chairman, is that there was at one time available a mobile powerplant from the Navy which the Department of Defense indicated would be available to the Army.

This has now proven, as we have proceeded into design, to be unavailable, and we must now fund for the complete standby power facility of the National Security Agency. It is a question of where the computer and the rapid electronic machinery is very sensitive.

Senator STENNIS. All right.
General SEEMAN. That completes the deficiency items.
Senator STENNIS. Yes.

General, I want to make one comment here about your appearance before the committee. This is without any discredit, of course, to anyone personally who does not wear his uniform, but you always wear your uniform.

I am proud of our Army uniform. I think all of you men are or should be, and I never have understood the philosophy of the military around here not wearing the uniform.

You have got some kind of special order over there, haven't you, about wearing it, you have to go out and buy a lot of civilian clothes?

General SEEMAN. So far as the Army is concerned, sir, we wear the uniform.

Senator STENNIS. All the time, all of you!

General SEEMAN. On duty. On Saturdays or off-duty hours in the evening we are permitted to come in—there is no hard and fixed rule, but the Chief of Staff has said it is his policy that during duty hours we wear the uniform.

Senator STENNIS. Well, I like that. If a man is in the Army let him be in the Army, and it is a source of pride and distinction to wear the Army uniform, I think.

All right. Anything further in open session? We will set up this executive session. We will get it when you get the other matters which we may want to ask you about and, of course, we will have the Reserve program, too.

General SEEMAN. Yes, sir.

Senator STENNIS. And you have it there real quick. Do you want to say something about the Reserve program now?

General SEEMAN. I do have a general statement here, but the detailed support comes up with General McGowan and the National Guard.

Senator STENNIS. All right. We will take all those later. Thank you, all of you again, and we will be letting you know when to come back, General. You are going to be on appropriations, too?

General SEEMAN. Yes, sir.
Senator STENNIS. All right. Thank you very much, gentlemen,

The committee will take a recess until 10:30 o'clock tomorrow morning.

(Whereupon, at 5:15 o'clock the committee adjourned, to reconvene tomorrow, Tuesday, April 12, 1960, at 10:30 a.m.)

all of you.

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