proper that they should have, because our policy-I might differ with the Secretary and suggest lack of policy-has indicated that sooner or later we would get out, and their investments are there, and of course they want to make them safe as far as they can, and they want to know how to liquidate, to get out, not having confidence in the government's being able to carry on after the American sovereignty has been taken away from the people.

Secretary HURLEY. Yes. Of course, Senator, if I have said anything that can be construed as an adverse criticism of these business men I would like to correct it. I do not know what it is just now, because, as I said in the beginning, I have every sympathy with their attitude. But I am explaining the reason why they might fix the time limit if it did not interfere with them.

Now let us come back to the policy. The Senator says we have no policy.

Senator ROBINSON of Indiana. Well, it has differed so much in the last years; excepting that one line running clear through it that ultimately they would get independence.

Secretary HURLEY. Of course you can understand in discussing it, Senator, that I have no pride of authorship of the policy. I came to Washington just as quickly as I could, but I did not get here in time to make that policy.

Senator PITTMAN. Mr. Secretary, before you go on. You made a statement which might inadvertently leave me in a position which I do not occupy. You said that apparently I prefer to leave it to the Filipinos, as to whether we should get out or not. Those are not quite my sentiments. It is no trouble for us to get out without even asking the Filipinos. We can pass an act to that effect and get out. But what I said was that under the Hawes bill it depends entirely on the Filipino people, under that bill, whether they want us to get out at the period of time that is set.

Secretary HURLEY. Well, Senator, you know I am not in disagreement with what you have said. Really you have expressed my own views on the thing. But there is one limitation. I would like to ask the Senator whether if, at the end of that period, the Filipinos should say, "We desire to remain under the sovereignty of the United States," you would want to reserve in the United States the right not to comply with that request unless it so desired?

Senator PITTMAN. I think it is always reserved anyway. It is reserved, as we own the Islands, and have the sovereignty. We are only giving them permission. We can terminate it any time we want to. We do not have to ask them that permission.

Secretary HURLEY. But after you transfer that possession or ownership and treat with them as a people, as a nation, then you have a treaty obligation that you could not very well absolve yourself from.

Senator PITTMAN. There is no surrender of possession or sovereignty until after the plebiscite.

Secretary HURLEY. Well, I am getting away from our policy. A great deal has been injected into this discussion. Let me get immediately to your plebiscite. After that, of course, there are certain conditions under which you could still stay in for a certain period. But, to be absolutely frank with you in my attitude on this bill which provides for the framing of a constitution subject to our

approval: If independence is our object, why should we supervise the making of their fundamental document, any more than to protect the lives and property of our nationals there?

Senator PITTMAN. Well, the very theory that you have there is to safeguard them, in our opinion, against any mistakes. That is the fundamental thing-safeguards against mistakes.

Secretary HURLEY. Well, does not that very theory-that they need to be safeguarded by us even in making their fundamental law argue against a capacity for immediate independence?

Senator PITTMAN. No, I think that under a good constitution they are more capable of independence even to-day than a great many countries that I could name that have independence.

Secretary HURLEY. I agree with you on that. But what I am pointing out to you is that, under your theory, they are not able to make that constitution without supervision.

Senator PITTMAN. They are perfectly able to, but I would not shirk the responsibility of aiding them.

Secretary HURLEY. No; I would not either. But let me proceed a little further. I am convinced that the Hawes-Cutting bill tears down this economic structure, if only for this reason: The Philippine National Bank has unliquid assets in the form of obligations of sugar centrals. The early placing of full United States tariff duties on sugar will prevent the liquidation of those obligations. This, in turn, would destroy the solvency of the Philippine National Bank. When you destroy the solvency of the Philippine National Bank you drag down the other major financial institutions of the Philippines, you bring on economic chaos in the islands. I claim that the imposition of the present tariff and the termination of the existing situation within. five years will bring about those conditions.

Senator PITTMAN. And I agree with you.

Secretary HURLEY. Yes, sir. Well, you see we will be in 100 per cent agreement before we get through.

Senator PITTMAN. And that is the reason I favor the Hawes-Cutting bill which maintains the status quo.

Secretary HURLEY. For five years?

Senator PITTMAN. Yes.

Secretary HURLEY. Why, Senator, five years is but a small heart throb in the life of a nation.

Senator PITTMAN. I think you are right, Mr. Secretary. I think it should be longer.

Secretary HURLEY. Well, wait now. Let me proceed a little further and maybe we can get together on another point. Let us suppose that we have weakened United States authority in the Islands by the passage of this bill permitting the readjustment as provided in the Hawes-Cutting bill. In my opinion such a course, would be destructive and would bring economic chaos and revolution. Therefore, I say to this committee this morning, if the Congress of the United States is going to pass that bill, give the Filipinos independence from the date of the passage of the bill, and give them the same economic privileges that you have provided for in the Hawes bill so that this chaos, this revolution, may occur under their flag instead of ours. I have a little responsibility in that matter, and I do not want such conditions to come about. I am trying to

keep you gentlemen from bringing it about, and that is my only purpose in appearing here.

Senator PITTMAN. Do you not think that they would be in a better position to protect themselves against revolution and economic disturbances in 10 years from now than they are now?

Secretary HURLEY. Yes, sir. The longer you set

Senator PITTMAN. Well then, why give them independence now? Secretary HURLEY. Well, Senator, I thought that in general, the resolutions favoring independence which have been passed by successive Philippine Legislatures have had a phrase therein to this effect, "Immediate, complete and absolute independence." To my mind that means "now," if I read correctly and understand correctly.

Senator PITTMAN. But we are dealing with what is best for them, not with what the legislature has passed.

Secretary HURLEY. Well, I am delighted to hear you say that, because I was severely criticized yesterday for arrogating the right to say what is the best for the Philippine Islands and not letting them say it for themselves.

Senator PITTMAN. I do not think there is any question but what anyone has a right to say it. I think, however, that notwithstanding the resolution in the Philippine Islands, the representatives of the legislature that are here are fully advised with regard to all the economic matters that we have been discussing.

Senator HURLEY. I think they are. But I still contend that they have not shown, to me at least, a plan whereby the government of the Philippine Islands is to survive economically after independence.

Senator PITTMAN. Well, if their plan is the economic plan contained in the Hawes-Cutting bill, and the time is fixed at 10 years or 15 years or some other period of decision, then the question is: Is that plan, if it is their plan, a sound plan? That is what Congress is thinking about.

Secretary HURLEY. Well, it is my opinion, of course, that any plan that tears down what has been built up in place of building it further on reasonable economic grounds, is destructive. I do not believe that the Hawes plan-please do not take this as personal criticism-I do not believe that the Hawes plan looks for a building up of this situation instead of a tearing down of the situation. Now maybe I am a little abrupt

Senator PITTMAN. I suppose you are going to discuss that, Mr. Secretary?

Secretary HURLEY. Yes.

Senator PITTMAN. And I do not mean to interrupt you more than necessary.

Secretary HURLEY. Of course I have been interrupted a lot and I have not followed the thread of my argument.

Senator PITTMAN. I believe that is the difficulty of your whole position.

Secretary HURLEY. Well, that is all right. Let me continue not only the policy, but the conditions by which we are confronted.

Dependence, by the Filipino leaders upon favored trade relations with the United States would seem to indicate that even the leaders who cry for absolute, immediate and complete independence do not expect to obtain it unless accompanied by special economic assistance from the United States. If they did expect to obtain it without that

assistance they would, naturally, as reasonable men, have formulated a plan whereby the obligations incident to complete independence could be discharged.

In this connection let me call attention also to the fact that the so-called non-Christian elements of the Filipino population constitute the majority of the population in nine provinces representing approximately 40 per cent of the area of the Archipelago. The representatives for these nine provinces are appointed by the Governor General; a majority of the governors for the provinces are also appointed for the reason that the inhabitants of those nine provinces have not yet reached that stage in the development of free institutions that would enable them to elect representatives. Each of these factors will be discussed at greater length subsequently.

For the present, it is sufficient to say that the responsibility voluntarily undertaken in the United States with respect to the Philippines has not yet been discharged. The final discharge of that responsibility can not be honorably escaped, even with the complete consent of the Filipino people. In discussing the possibility of American withdrawal from the Philippines, the Secretary of State (Mr. Stimson) states:

To every foreign eye it would be a demonstration of selfish cowardice and futility on our part. No matter under what verbal profession the act of withdrawal were clothed, to the realist observers of that part of the world it would inevitably assume the aspect of abandonment of the wards we had undertaken to protect.

EXISTING POLITICAL SITUATION

During the 333 years of Spanish soverignty, the masses of the Filipinos achieved no measure of independence or self-government and made no appreciable economic advancement. In 1898 the standard of living in the major portion of the islands was not greatly different from the standards of the sixteenth century. The colony was literally and completely a Spanish possession and the population was subject to all the implications of autocratic control exercised from a foreign source. Cultural progress was limited to a very small minority except for the adoption by a large proportion of the population of the Christian religion and the Spanish language. In contrast to this record, the United States has, in a period of 32 years, established an educational system which has resulted in great reduction in illiteracy and afforded an opportunity to the entire population for cultural advancement; raised the standard of living through advantageous trade relations; encouraged local industries; established improvement in sanitation which has decreased mortality to such an extent that the population of the islands has doubled itself in thrity years; and finally has organized a representative system of government that, with certain necessary reservations reposes complete control of local civil affairs in the Filipinos. The relative backwardness of the non-Christian elements has prevented to date a universal application of representative government. This situation is being corrected as rapidly as possible. Time alone is essential for its complete accomplishment.

I wish no one to understand me to claim that these splendid achievements could have been made without intelligence, courage, and industry on the part of the Filipinos themselves. However, the achievement was brought about under American leadership and guidance

which have been intelligently exercised and without which, in my opinion, this progress would not have been made.

Essential to these achievements also was the free market with the United States.

The sudden withdrawal of these two agencies would in my opinion, destroy in a very short period of time that which has been built up during the American occupation. It is the consensus of opinion of responsible observers that if America should withdraw immediately, economic chaos, political and social anarchy would result. This con

dition would ultimately be followed by domination of the Philippines by some foreign power.

To-day the degree of authority exercised by the United States over the Philippine Islands is represented principally by a Governor General who has veto power over legislation and who has executive direction of the functions of the government. Supplementing this authority is the responsibility for the approval of certain types of legislation in the President and in the Congress of the United States. The direction is also indicated by the fact that a majority of the supreme court of the islands have been Americans, and that in certain types of litigation the right of certiorari to the Supreme Court of the United States is provided.

In addition to this, the American obligation for the protection from external aggression is complete. Responsibility for the preservation of internal order is shared by the United States Government and the local government. Final responsibility for the soundness of the currency and the stability of the government is assumed by the United States.

It is admitted by all that during the 32 years of American control of the Philippine Islands, the Filipinos, with American aid, have made greater progress socially, economically, and politically, than during all the centuries that passed before. During the whole period of American occupancy, successive steps have been voluntarily taken by the United States reducing the degree of American authority exercised in the islands.

FILIPINO SENTIMENT

There is an evident confusion in the minds of the great mass of the Filipino people as to the distinction between self-government and absolute independence from the United States. It is difficult to realize that the steady and vociferous clamor for complete independdence does not represent the fundamental sentiment of the Filipino population. Most of the more intelligent people appreciate fully the risks that would be incurred by the whole population if immediate independence were granted. While the inhabitants of the mountain provinces, the Sulu Archipelago and the Island of Mindanao, expressed themselves freely upon this subject, they are, however, fearful of the unreasoning and universal sentiment that has been created in other portions of the island. Well aware of their own unpreparedness to undertake the responsibilities devolving upon a completely independent state, these so-called non-Christian people are forced to depend upon America's good faith and common sense to save them from the consequences that would follow political separation from the United States.

106240-32-3