Mr. VAUGHN. I forget just which company it was. I was just giving that as an illustration. Mr. JOHNSON of West Virginia. Was he a dollar-a-year man? Mr. VAUGHAN. No; we have no dollar-a-year men. As you will recall, Mr. Perkins explained that when he testified on our appropriation bill in June. Before these men are employed, they must actually sever their connections with the company with which they have been connected. Mr. JOHNSON of West Virginia. That is what I am getting at. Mr. VAUGHN. That is one of the reasons we want to interview these men, to make certain that there is a severance of that relationship. Mr. JOHNSON of West Virginia. It is rather difficult for a man, whether he is with a big copper company or a big oil company, really to separate himself from the company; he may not draw the salary, but it is difficult for him to separate his actions from the company. The question is, Will he serve you or will he serve his company? Mr. VAUGHN. We are making as certain as we possibly can that he will serve the Government. NEED FOR POSTING EMPLOYEES IN OTHER COUNTRIES AT THIS TIME (See p. 316) Mr. TABER. What is the sense in transporting people and their dependents and their household goods to some other country in these times? They do not allow any other departments to take their dependents along, do they? Mr. VAUGHAN. Other agencies that have representatives stationed permanently abroad are permitted to do that. Mr. TABER. Who are doing that currently? Mr. VAUGHAN. The State Department; Nelson Rockefeller's organization. Mr. TABER. Have they any such provision as this in their statute? Mr. VAUGHAN. I think they have. Mr. TABER. How did you ever come to overlook that when you were here before? Mr. VAUGHAN. When we were here, we did not contemplate stationing representatives abroad for any length of time, or we certainly would not have overlooked it. Mr. TABER. You told us about some connections that you were making down in South America, when you were here before. Mr. VAUGHAN. At that time we were sending individuals down for a month or 6 weeks, on temporary exploratory programs. Mr. TABER. Why do you need to send people down there with all of these other agencies that we have already represented down there? It is only going to result in a lot of overlapping and duplication; is it not? Mr. VAUGHAN. We do not think so. You will recall, Mr. Perkins explained most of our working relationships with the other organizations, when we were here on the matter of our appropriation the last time. We work with the Reconstruction Finance Corporation and with various other organizations in the field. We definitely feel that there is no overlapping. Since we are actually responsible for the procurement of these various strategic and critical materials, we feel we should have our representatives there to fulfill our responsibilities. Mr. TABER. I thought these different units were given the job and had the responsibility of procuring these different materials. Mr. VAUGHAN. In the foreign field, sir, that is our responsibility. Mr. TABER. That is your responsibility? Mr. VAUGHAN. Yes, sir. Mr. TABER. Then why are these other organizations involved, if that is your responsibility? It seems to me that you ought to have the job or they ought to have it. This way it is all mixed up. Mr. VAUGHAN. We have the responsibility. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Does Jesse Jones admit that? Mr. VAUGHAN. The funds are in his hands. We issue the directives for the procurement. Mr. TABER. What about the corporation that deals in copper, that you have just been talking about? Mr. VAUGHAN. R. F. C. actually handles the expenditure of the funds. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. He has handled the whole problem, before you got in, has he not? Mr. VAUGHAN. No, sir; I do not believe that is correct. The whole job has changed greatly. At the time we entered the field, there was very little activity of the kind. We have been given the broad responsibility for the procurement abroad of all critical and strategic materials that are necessary to supplement the domestic program. Mr. TABER. Do they have to come to you to get permission to buy anything that they want in foreign fields? Mr. VAUGHAN. Yes; we issue the basic directives in the foreign field. Mr. TABER. That is, every move has to come through? Mr. VAUGHAN. Yes, sir; we approve every purchase program in the foreign field. Mr. TABER. Regardless of what agency is buying it? Mr. VAUGHAN. Thatis right; yes, sir. NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES INVOLVED Mr. TABER. How many of these folks are there that you anticipate you are going to move down there? Mr. VAUGHAN. It is rather difficult to say, but we expect there will be an assistant to the Ambassador in each of the South American countries where our programs are operating, and other countries as necessary. Mr. TABER. Regardless of whether there is anything to buy or not? Mr. VAUGHAN. No, sir; only in those countries where it is necessary. Mr.. TABER. And how many of them do you figure there would be? Mr. VAUGHAN. That is very difficult to say. Mr. TABER. Would it be a dozen or 40 or a hundred? Mr. VAUGHAN. Probably over a hundred. Mr. TABER. That would be more than one assistant for each ambassador? Mr. VAUGHAN. There will be one over-all representative responsible for all of our operations in a country. He will be a special assistant to the Ambassador or Minister, and in turn he will have whatever technical assistants he might need; it might be a man on procurement; it might be a man on development; and so forth. Mr. TABER. You are apt to have four or five in one place? Mr. VAUGHAN. Yes, sir. For instance, in a country the size of Brazil it may be necessary to have a considerably larger staff. ADDITIONAL EXPENSE INVOLVED IN PROPOSED PROVISION The CHAIRMAN. How much money do you figure you will have to use in this activity? Mr. VAUGHAN. We have not developed any estimates on that. We are going to try, at least in the initial stages of our program, to use what money we have. We do not want to ask for any additional funds unless it is absolutely necessary, of course. Mr. TABER. In other words, the Congress gave you so much more money than you need, you have got to find some way of spending it. Is that about it? Mr. VAUGHAN. That is not true; no, sir. Mr. TABER. That is what it looks like. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Why should you ask us to appropriate money blindly without knowing what it is going to cost you? Mr. VAUGHAN. This is not a request for an appropriation. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I know it is not, but it has the same effect indirectly. Mr. LUDLOW. It is leading up to it. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You tell us you do not know what the effect is. Mr. JOHNSON of West Virginia. Why do you not come up here with a picture, so that we can look at it and know what it is? Mr. VAUGHAN. You mean as to the additional amount of funds necessary? Mr. JOHNSON of West Virginia. Yes. Mr. VAUGHAN. Until we have had an opportunity to see exactly how we will have to operate, we hardly think we can be that definite. We do not want to give you a fictitious picture. Mr. JOHNSON of West Virginia. You have not got any picture at all here, fictitious or otherwise. Mr. VAUGHAN. I can tell you roughly how many people it would take; it would take perhaps 150 or so. NUMBER OF REPRESENTATIVES ABROAD CURRENTLY. Mr. LUDLOW. How many have you abroad at this time? Mr. LUDLOW. In what countries? Mr. VAUGHAN. We have them in Brazil, Bolivia Mr. LUDLOW. Any outside the Western Hemisphere? Mr. VAUGHAN. Yes, sir; we have some in England; some in South Africa, in the Belgian Congo. Mr. LUDLOW. How many do you anticipate you will have at your peak? Mr. VAUGHAN. About 200 or 250. REIMBURSEMENT FOR LOSSES; ADVANCE PAYMENTS ON EXPENDITURES (See p. 315) Mr. LUDLOW. As I caught your prepared statement, you said that these representatives of yours ought to be reimbursed for losses; and you gave a very graphic description of an instance where he might have to penetrate the jungles of South America, and so forth. Would not that open an exceedingly wide door, if we were to underwrite all losses of that kind? Mr. VAUGHAN. No; let me explain that item. Only losses of personal effects in marine or aircraft disasters would be compensated. My statement about pioneer travel related to the question of advance of funds. It is not possible under the present Treasury regulations to advance funds to individuals except for subsistence expenses. It is not possible to advance funds for those individuals who are abroad, the men who are going to these far-flung areas where it may be necessary for them to make certain unusual expenditures. They can obtain reimbursement, but they do that by voucher. Mr. LUDLOW. Who passes on the voucher? Mr. LUDLOW. I realize the difficulties of the situation; they are enormous. But would not this open a pretty wide door and would it not be responsible for a rather loose situation where one of your representatives would be able to say, "I have to have certain things done and I will incur these expenses," and then come back and, ipso facto, get reimbursement? Mr. VAUGHAN. We would only follow the regulations in a case of that kind. Mr. LUDLOW. This would be a consummated act by the time it reached you. Mr. VAUGHAN. A field man can already do that under existing regulations. He can be reimbursed for his expenditures now; that is, normal expenditures for labor, and so forth. But it means that when he comes back he submits a voucher. All we are asking here is to be allowed to advance funds to these men, properly bonded, before they go out, and not expect a person to depend upon his own resources, because it takes a good deal of time to get a voucher paid, after a person gets back. Mr. LUDLOW. I was thinking about a man going out and deciding that he had to have a very expensive thing for his purposes, to penetrate these territories that you are talking about. Under this proposal, would he be authorized in advance to do whatever he considered the situation required, and then would he be reimbursed automatically without anybody passing on that action aside from himself? Mr. VAUGHAN. No, sir. We do not give blanket authorizations like that. He would be specifically authorized to do certain things, to employ so many laborers, to incur this expense or make that expenditure. Normally he can do that now in any agency. He incurs these various expenses and submits a voucher and it comes back to the United States to be approved and paid. What we are asking is that we be allowed to advance funds to these individuals, so that they will not have to pay out of their own pocket, because the total sometimes runs into several hundred dollars. Mr. LUDLOW. What I am thinking about is, if you have 200 agents and each one of them has carte blanch authority to go out and do whatever he thinks ought to be done, and sincerely thinks so, where would you get in the matter of ultimate expenditure? Mr. VAUGHAN. There would be no carte blanch authority. An paproved budget is submitted to each individual before he leaves the country. This spells out very specifically exactly what he can do. Otherwise these men might be running hog-wild. Mr. LUDLOW. Before he leaves, there is a budget limitation set? Mr. VAUGHAN. Yes; definitely. Mr. LUDLOW. And he knows what that is? Mr. VAUCHAN. Yes; in writing, and for what purposes, and so forth. POLICY OF ALLOWING FAMILIES TO ACCOMPANY EMPLOYEES TO FOREIGN COUNTRIES Mr. LAMBERTSON. Outside of the considerations that Mr. Ludlow has been talking about, it seems to me that it is certainly not in conformity with the military situation to allow families to accompany these men to foreign countries. There is not only the question of the space that is taken up on the boats that transport them, but then we have got to get them back and, wherever they may happen to be, they may be in the way of the military; they clutter up the boats and, altogether, I do not see why anybody should be allowed to take his family to a foreign country at this time. Mr. LUDLOW. This is a war emergency and this activity is not expected to be continued after the war. Mr. VAUGHAN. It is for the duration. Mr. LUDLOW. Why is it necessary to move families and dependents and clutter up the boats with these people? Mr. VAUGHAN. We are actually unable to say how long they will be away. When we send a man down to a particular country, he may be there for a year or 2 years or 3 years. I think I should like to have my family with me in such a case, and most of you would undoubtedly like to have your families with you, if you went. The CHAIRMAN. They are not going into the zone of hostilities, are they? Mr. VAUGHAN. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. These people are to be sent, most of them, to South America? Mr. LAMBERTSON. How can we tell what the zone of hostilities is going to be? The CHAIRMAN. Your Board is charged with the responsibility of securing strategic materials from South America, which are desperately needed by us at this time? Mr. VAUGHAN. That is right. The CHAIRMAN. Such as copper, tin, phosphates? Mr. VAUGHAN. Balsa wood is another product which now is getting to be critical. The CHAIRMAN. And you are making strenuous efforts to secure rubber from South America? |