NOTE. Material and labor costs have increased substantially since June 1942, the last date on which we now have index figures available.

COOTERATION WITH ARMY AND NAVY

Mr. O'NEAL. How closely do you work with the Army and Navy in anticipating needs?

Mr. BLANDFORD. We have been represented, sir-recently they have reorganized-on the Plant Site Board. Then the Army and Navy have each designated a person with whom we are almost in daily touch. We tell them what we are programming and they advise us as to any urgent situation. It is a very close relationship. Similarly, with the Maritime Commission.

Mr. O'NEAL. And then on the other hand, with reference to building for factories, with whom do you consult on that?

Mr. BLANDFORD. Everybody we can who has a contribution. We have regional offices located in the same centers as the regional offices of the War Production Board and the War Manpower Commission. We work very closely with them. We work directly with and supplement our information with the information given by the plants themselves. And we have this liaison with the Army and the Navy and the Maritime Commission. Then in particular communities, we tie in with local housing committees, city officials, chambers of commerce, real-estate boards, and labor.

(Statement off the record.)

USE OF EXISTING HOUSES BY RENOVATION, ETC.

Mr. O'NEAL. Mr. Blandford, will you put a statement in the record showing what your program is for the use of existing houses by way of renovation or other methods?

Mr. BLANDFORD. I will do so.

(The statement referred to is as follows:)

This fact is best shown by our programming method reflected in our program presentation. We are counting upon existing houses to take care of 650,000 of the 1,320,000 additional accommodations needed during fiscal 1943. We estimate, all in all, that existing structures will take care of 1,700,000 of the 2,969,023 units of war housing, private and public, already programmed and now proposed. We are starting a most vigorous homes-utilization program to better this record if we can.

Mr. TABER. I understood you to tell us that 90 percent of what you were doing was in the way of dormitory set-ups; is that right?

Mr. BLANDFORD. No, sir; what I said was that about 90 percent of the construction that we plan out of this $600,000,000 will be temporary construction. This will include dormitories, dormitory apartments, and temporary family dwelling units.

COMPARISON WITH NAVY'S MULTIPLE-FAMILY DWELLING COSTS

Mr. TABER. Are these dormitories one-family unit dwellings, or are they multiple-family housing units?

Mr. BLANDFORD. Mr. Emmerich is planning multiple-family units in order to conserve the use of critical materials.

Mr. EMMERICH. They are low-cost attached houses.
Mr. TABER. Are they one-story or two-story houses?

Mr. EMMERICH. They are one-story.

Mr. TABER. I talked with somebody about who ought to know what he was doing, and he told me that in the Navy they were building twofloor, four-family wooden structures at a cost of approximately $8,000, to provide housing for four families. Now, that was not in the North where, perhaps, you would have to have a little more expensive construction, but he was doing that for $8,000, which would be about $2,000 expenditure per family. Why can you not do that?

Mr. BLANDFORD. We show $2,400.

Mr. TABER. You show $3,300 for family units. A lot of this construction represents a big loss in a way. There is no question about that. All of us realize that. We know that all of this stuff represents a big loss, and I do not believe you can avoid its resulting in a big loss; but why should you be spending $3,300 while another agency is spending $2,000 for the same thing?

Mr. BLANDFORD. May I make this comment? I am a little puzzled by that figure, because on the barracks type of dormitory construction which the Army undertakes their figures run about the same as ours for similar work. I assume that the Navy figure does not include land and utilities, and these items add up an appreciable amount. For one-family units, they might average about $1,000. Perhaps the Navy figure does not include that. I am quite confident that their costs are not any lower than ours.

Mr. EMMERICH. I would like to have a talk with that gentleman. We are working very closely with those people.

Mr. BLANDFORD. I would be glad to run that down, because we have allocated our money to the Navy on the basis of our costs here.

PERMANENT FAMILY HOUSING

Mr. TABER. You have a considerable item here for permanent family housing. I suppose that means individual housing, or does it mean double housing?

Mr. EMMERICH. We try to build in several ways. The greater percentage of them are standard three-family houses. They are duplicated, with four in a row. They are one-family, two-story dwelling units.

Mr. TABER. Why are you putting up that permanent housing?

Mr. EMMERICH. There are certain communities in which there is a very large likelihood of permanent need for housing, and there are communities where we have to go into the center of the town, or in fairly good residential neighborhoods, where utilities are installed. The Government has a much better chance to come out on its investment if it builds permanent houses rather than temporary structures. It is only in those localities that permanent dwellings are a part of the program. It is a small percentage of the program.

RENTAL OF PERMANENT HOUSES

Mr. TABER. You build a permanent house for $4,500. How much rent do you get for such a house?

Mr. EMMERICH. Around $33 or $35 per month.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Those projects would be amortized.

Mr. TABER. You do not amortize them on that basis. A private operator could not afford to rent such a house for less than $40 or $'5 per month. He could not afford to rent it for less on the same kind of investment. He must pay a little more interest than you have to pay, but his operating expenses will be less.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Mr. Emmerich has a table there which indicates that the rent charges carry on adequate amortization charge. Mr. TABER. For permanent houses?

Mr. BLANDFORD. Yes, sir.

Mr. TABER. Taking a conservative figure, those houses would last about 6 years.

Mr. BLANDFORD. No, sir. Of the somewhat more than 600,000 units already built and to be built with public funds, including the proposed appropriation, over 200,000 on the old program are permanent. They are set up on a financial basis that ought to return the whole Government investment through rentals now and sale later. The other 400,000 public units fall into the temporary class, and these, of course, will not.

Mr. TABER. I am satisfied that your permanent houses will not pay

out.

Mr. BLANDFORD. We cannot expect the temporaries to.

Mr. TABER. No; but you can build more of them with the same money.

Mr. BLANDFORD. And it will make tremendous saving in critical materials.

USE OF PREFABRICATED HOUSES

Mr. TABER. Are you going to use any of these outfits that are ready to set up?

Mr. BLANDFORD. Prefabricated houses?

Mr. TABER. Yes.

Mr. EMMERICH. Yes, sir; a very large percentage of the present construction is prefabricated, or factory-made houses which come on the job ready to be set up.

Mr. TABER. You have to have a little bit different set-up in the really cold part of the country as against the warmer part. That is a requirement you have to meet in order to protect the occupants from cold. There would be a little more expense in the northern part of the country. There will be some variation in your cost.

Mr. EMMERICH. That part of the prefabricated program has not shown very great economies or advantages. The advantage has been mostly in speed, and we do not have to use as much building labor on the job.

LOCATION OF PERMANENT HOUSING PROJECTS

Mr. TABER. You have down here $4,500 for these houses: How many are you putting in any community, or where are you planning to put 25,000 houses? What type of communities are you planning to put them in?

Mr. EMMERICH. Without mentioning the specific communities, in answer to that, I will say that they are communities, for example, in which there are new plants, and where, perhaps, the post-war employment of that plant is estimated to be 30 percent of the peak of their use. The plant would have a post-war use. In that community there will be presumably a need for some permanent housing. We also take into consideration to what extent private enterprise will meet that. need. We do that before we schedule 'public housing. If it appears that there is a need for public housing, then we schedule it. Very often it will be placed on existing subdivisions or along improved streets where, because of fire hazards, etc., it is better not to build the temporary type of stuff, which is generally built in outlying areas.

Mr. TABER. Are these permanent units of multiple construction, or are they single-family or isolated houses?

Mr. EMMERICH. No, sir; there are generally four attached houses in a group.

Mr. TABER. That should save something on the construction and on the heating units. The heating units do not have to be quite so good, and there would be some saving on account of the cheaper wall con

struction.

Mr. EMMERICH. It is in the public utilities that we use critical materials.

CONSTRUCTION FOR ARMY CIVILIAN WORKERS

Mr. TABER. Where will you spend $58,000,000 for civilian workers at Army posts?

Mr. BLANDFORD. All over the country, at air depots, decentralized fields, isolated powder plants, and all sorts of Army establishments. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Do you provide housing for them?

Mr. BLANDFORD. Yes, sir; for civilian workers.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What sort of construction is that?

Mr. BLANDFORD. We are planning dormitories and dormitory apartments. They are for civilian workers.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What is the basis of this figure? How many men are to be accommodated, or what are the details of this estimate?

Mr. BLANDFORD. We presented the details at the Lanham hearings. The figure is based on dormitories, some 58,000 dormitories. There will be some family dwelling units. The figure we used at the time provided for 58,000 workers, at $1,000 each.

Mr. TABER. They are doing better for their own workers than you are for the civilians. They are getting the stuff for less than you are. Mr. BLANDFORD. No, sir; we allocate to them the same amounts that we are using ourselves. The cost is the same. We have not adjusted that figure. It was to provide for 58,000 workers at $1,000 each.

AVAILABILITY FOR DEFENSE HOMES CORPORATION FUNDS

Mr. TABER. I Would like to have you tell me when these items were available to you. Referring to the items on Table No. 4, can you tell me when this Defense Homes money became available to you?

Mr. BLANDFORD. The history of that is not very clearly in my mind. There was $10,000,000 advanced from the President's emergency fund. Mr. TABER. You could not give that offhand?

Mr. BLANDFORD. We have it in a footnote here; $10,000,000 was advanced from the President's fund, and $50,000,000 from the R. F. C. Mr. TABER. When was that?

Mr. BLANDFORD. I can put that in the record.

Mr. TABER. At the present time, I would like to have you state for the record when these different items of funds that appear on table No. 14 became available.

Mr. BLANDFORD. I have that here. On October 23, 1940, the $50,000,000 was made available.

Mr. TABER. When was No. 671 made available?

Mr. BLANDFORD. The first part was made available on June 28, 1940.
Mr. EMMERICH. Some of it was made available in May 1942.
Mr. TABER. Do you know what day in May?

how much was made available each time?

You do not know

Mr. BLANDFORD. Yes, sir; we have it in chart form here.
Mr. TABER. You may supply that for the record.

Mr. BLANDFORD. I will do so.

(The information requested is furnished subsequently.)

QUESTIONS AS TO PROGRESS OF CONSTRUCTION OF HOUSING PROJECTS

Mr. TABER. It appears that there is still open about 65,000 units not contracted for.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Which table is that?

Mr. TABER. That is table 13. That is what Mr. Emmerich told us— that is, that this will not be contracted for until the 15th of November. Here is a thing that I do not quite follow: I do not know how much money will be represented by that, or how much money is represented by the units not contracted for.

Mr. BLANDFORD. 113,000 units.

Mr. TABER. 48,000 have been contracted for. How many dollars do the 65,000 which have not been contracted for represent? Mr. BLANDFORD. I would say less than $180,000,000. Mr. EMMERICH. It would be about $150,000,000.