against them. We think ERA would also require for making women whole, and making them full participating citizens, and rectify the feeling among women that they are second class citizens, and that they do not participate fully. Ms. GROSSMAN. I think Ďonna and Marlene took the tack I was going to take on this issue. I think, too, that the difficulties lie in the piecemeal approach and the inherent inadequacies, inconsistencies, and time we spend sorting out each area of discrimination in the courts. For example, even after legislation there remains the question: Does title IX cover employment? All of these things are difficulties to us. And the ERA, I think, will give a better standard, and a standard that is not easily rectractable. The laws go on the books, they go off. The constitutional amendments go on a great deal harder and come off a great deal harder. I think that is an important aspect for our whole approach for this. Senator HAWKINS. I have heard the arguments on both sides of the equal rights amendment, and I think they are both right. It is so vaguely worded and ambiguous I cannot believe anybody who has listened to debates, and especially in Florida, where we listened year after year after year, cannot see a lot of truth in both sides. Lawyers are adept at making things vaguely worded, so you have to hire another lawyer to see what it means, and you have to hire another lawyer to see what is the intent of the law, and oversight to see if the original intent is enforced. So on this committee, you have a woman who has listened to years and years of debate. I am worried especially about the cloud over the extension, which is very unsportsmanlike, to say the least, about continuing the pros and not continuing the antis. I think we would all be best served, and this is one woman's opinion, to write it, whatever is needed in the marketplace, and I would get a 12-year-old child to write, and you get a 12-year-old to understand it. And you cut out the legal ramifications I have heard pro or con. We are all for equality in this country. I want to say that this meeting today has provided a lot of statistics. I did not know it was going to be a testimonial to the pros of the equal rights amendment. There are some of those of us that differ on what that will and will not do. I personally will not witness what it will or will not do down the line. It is too vaguely worded. Each of you have a right to your opinion, and I have the right to mine. I want it on the record, there are some of us in meaningful roles for women, that the equal rights amendment is not a panacea. Senator KENNEDY. I think my record in support of it has been clear. My support for the extension of it has been self evident, and I welcome the opportunity to hear people who had worked so hard for that extension testify. I stand firmly in the support of the equal rights amendment, but quite frankly, this is not the time to get into the debate. When we initially passed the constitutional amendment there was no time limit. Congress was clear at other times in our history when we considered other constitutional amendments, and there have been those that took a great deal longer than the initial period of time. We debated those issues on the floor of the Senate. and were able to get those successfully accepted by members. I think the point that is important is the witnesses that appeared this morning and this afternoon have been people who have been in the vanguard to eliminate discrimination in the working places of this country for women. With some important additions that were suggested by the minority, they are basically typical of the women's groups in this society that have been active and involved in that effort. And no one could listen to any of the witnesses here today and fail to be moved by both their knowledge and their understanding and their commitment in this area. Most of them filed their statements, or summarized it, and spoke from their own practical experience, and they have been out on the firing line. I think one of the interesting facts is, just about with rare exception, all recognize the importance of the equal rights amend ment as a cornerstone of the whole movement toward the elimination of discrimination for women in the workplace. I want to make it clear to my colleague and new friend from Florida, that my interest as an individual Senator will be to continue to support and struggle and see if we cannot pass the equal rights amendment, but also to find areas of common ground where we can agree so that we can move into some of these other areas which have been raised here, and for which I think there is a broad degree of support. And we may not be able to always agree on matters, but I think the challenge to all of us today is to try to find areas of common understanding, and common view, and common attitude, and see if we cannot continue to make progress. That is what I am interested in. I know that is what the good Senator from Florida is interested in. And I think the spirit of this hearing will be continued. But I do think it is important as we develop this hearing record that we have the positions of these various groups, and the reasons for those positions on this issue. I would therefore like to, if I could, submit additional questions. Senator HAWKINS. No objection. The other members, several other members have asked if they could contact you with written questions, and have you enter them in the record. In light of the penchant here for having three meetings at one time, and one person required to attend all three, we will allow that without objection. I cannot let the record be closed today without saying something good for the secretary. I want you to know that it is probably the most valuable commodity today in the Capitol. I cannot tell you how important it is to have documents typed well, spaced well, spelled correctly. There are hardly papers submitted to me today that do not have corrections on them. It is no reflection on your work, but a reflec tion on who did it. Either spelling or punctuation. It is the quality of education, and one of the problems we have to address as women, especially with the younger generation, and at least trying out for jobs in my office, that the quality of education must be increased. We are spending more money than ever on education and, I want to tell you, the product is really slipping away from us. It is something that is going to have to be addressed. Women, supposedly from your statistics today, fill those roles, and I want them to fill them with great excellence. And indeed, if a lot of the laws can hang on a comma, semicolon intent, it should be accepted practices. I am awfully sorry I cannot tell you the quality of education has increased in the last 10 years. Obviously it has slipped away from us, and I think we should redirect our attention to the base, so as we progress on up the ladder and other roles, you still have the basic elements of good grammar, spelling. The three R's we all grew up with, and must not escape you as you go up the ladder in other careers. I would like all of us to recommit to quality education on every campus, whether it is a junior high school, elementary school, or wherever. And I want to make that observation, because that is the one job we find the most difficult to fill in Washington today. And I do not care if it is a man or woman. I have no objection to either sex filling that vacancy, as long as they can do the job required of them. And it is a very difficult and meaningful role. Is there anything else to come before this committee before we adjourn? [No response.] Senator HAWKINS. I would like to thank all of you for your interest and concerns. As I stated earlier, my office will be open to you at all times. We have a lot of things in common, and it is all in the national good, and in the interest of man and womankind in general. It has been a great privilege to be with you today. Thank you. At this point I order printed all statements of those who could not attend and other pertinent material submitted for the record. [The material referred to follows:] YWCA Cambridge Young Women's Christian Association 7 Temple Street, Central Square, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02139 Tel: (617) 491-6050 President: Gail Kharidia Executive Director: Margaret E. Williams January 26, 1981 The Honorable Orrin G. Hatch Senate Committee on Labor and Human Resources 4230 Dirksen Senate Office Building Washington, D.C. 20510 Dear Senator Hatch: I am aware that the Senate Committee on Labor and Human Resources is conducting hearings currently on sex discrimination in the work place. January 29 is the deadline for submitting written testimony on this issue. This letter is my written testimony. As Executive Director of the Cambridge YWCA I am working to enforce our own Association's affirmative action commitment with regard to the contractor and subcontractors on a large renovation project currently underway here. (See the enclosed brochure for details on this.) I have been heartened by the fact and history of Federal legislation in regards to equal employment opportunity for women as well as "minorities. As you well know this includes the Equal Pay Act of 1963, Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, Title IX legislation which focused on women in sports and public health services, legistation ensuring equal credit, and the legislation in regard to non-discrimination where revenue-sharing funds are involved. The Senate's role in support of all of this progressive legislation, with the appropriations to back it up--is crucial. I am made newly aware of this as I seek to monitor the hiring practices of our contractor and subcontractors. It is my hope that the Senate Committee on Labor and Human Resources will listen very intently to the needs of women workers for full equity, and that the Committee will respond by recommending the maximum appropriations necessary for full implementation and monitoring of legislation prohibiting sex discrimination in American life--but, most especially, in the workplace. |