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Certainly with his background of training he should be in a position where, if you showed him examples of various types of diseases or defects or those things which would cause him to condemn a product, that one day of having it pointed out to him, plus the fact that he would be dealing with people experienced in the thing, that this matter of training would be a rather simple sort of thing.

Mr. SMITH. Do you want to talk on this, Mr. Lennartson?

Mr. LENNARTSON. Yes. I think we ought to point out, Mr. Chairman, that with respect to the circumstances which you related, first, there wouldn't likely be a poultry processing plant in the city. Poultry processing plants are practically wholly outside of cities. They are out in the country in the neighborhood where the poultry are produced.

In the case of a plant making beef pies, beef soups, and chicken pies, here we do exchange inspectors with the Meat Inspection Service. In a plant making chicken pies and beef pies, we wouldn't have a veterinarian for chicken pies and a veterinarian for the beef pies. There is reciprocity here between the two services in that respect. They would operate under one supervisor, whoever was doing this work.

But the matter of the poultry inspector in a poultry plant, and the meat inspector in a meat slaughtering plant, the plants are not together, citywide or countrywide. They are entirely separate. The structure of the industry is such that it makes them so. But there is a high degree of cross-utilization between the two services in this matter of the convenience-type of food.

Mr. WHITTEN. You recall this subcommittee a few years ago set out to consolidate this, and we took a licking on the floor. In other words, they had us outvoted and we recognized it, and also there had been some prior agreements between the poultry industry and the other committees of the Congress with which we were not familiar.

May I put in the record so we will better understand this in the future, and the public in the future, may we have a map showing the meat, the regular inspection packing plants in one color, or some way to differentiate, and the poultry, and in that if you would show then the central points of supervision with regard to the two services, I think when we see it on a map it certainly would cause us to have a little better understanding than we now have.

I realize in asking these questions that it is an old story, but it is one with which we are constantly faced.

This matter of increasing inspection costs, where the grade and pay is fixed not by the Department or by the Congress specifically but by a prior law that the Civil Service raises any time you turn around, whether it is deserved or not, I don't pass on.

But where the control is in another agency beyond this one you can see that we need to explore at all times the possibility that we may coordinate, which you say you have, and perhaps amalgamate at some level or other to the fullest extent possible to handle this.

I think a map showing these things, for the record, if you can provide it, would help. If a map is too detailed to show up well in the record you might provide it for the committee and put in the record a table comparing the locations of meat and poultry inspection and supervision.

(The material referred to follows:)

AGRICULTURAL RESEARCH SERVICE

Area headquarters, numbers of supervisors, States, and plants

MEAT INSPECTION (AS OF FEB. 28, 1963)

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Maricopa....

Pima..
Santa Cruz..

ARIZONA

Meat inspection, Los Angeles, Calif.; poultry inspection, San Francisco, Calif.

Total plants...

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Alameda.....

Meat inspection, Los Angeles, Calif.; poultry inspection, San Francisco, Calif.

Emeryville.

Newark.

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Area headquarters-Continued

CALIFORNIA-Continued

Meat inspection, Los Angeles, Calif.; poultry Inspection, San Francisco, Calif.-Continued

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COLORADO

Meat inspection, Los Angeles, Calif.; poultry inspection, Des Moines, Iowa

Englewood.

Broomfield.

Longmont.

Denver.

Colorado Springs.
Arvada..

Loveland..

Grand Junction.

Larimer.

Mesa..

Cheraw

Otero..

Pueblo..

Pueblo.

Greeley.

Weld.

Total plants...

Area headquarters-Continued

CONNECTICUT

Meat inspection, New York, N.Y.; poultry inspection, Philadelphia, Pa.

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Kent.......

New Castle...

Sussex....

DELAWARE

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Meat inspection, New York, N.Y.; poultry inspection, Philadelphia, Pa.

Total plants..

Dover..

Felton..

Houston..

Odessa.

Wilmington..
Bridgeville.
Georgetown..
Harbeson
Laurel.

Lewes..

Milford.

Millsboro.

Millville.

Selbyville.

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

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Meat inspection, New York, N.Y.; poultry inspection, Philadelphia, Pa.

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