Mr. LINCOLN. Let me answer this question. The CHAIRMAN. Wait one minute. Let's not have Mr. Toland and the witness arguing. Just answer the question. Mr. TOLAND. I am not arguing. He is trying to be smart and I want an answer. Mr. LINCOLN. It happens that a friend of mine who is an artist had drawn these two or three drawings which were put into-you know-what do you call these things that appear in newspapers? The CHAIRMAN. Cartoons? Mr. LINCOLN. Cartoons; and he sent these three to me as a present to me. Mr. TOLAND. And you put them up on the wall? Mr. LINCOLN. I put them up. Mr. TOLAND. They are still there, aren't they, where everybody who goes through passes them? Mr. LINCOLN. Yes, sir. Mr. TOLAND. And what do they say? Mr. LINCOLN. One of them says the picture is this: T-A, and then a man lying down on his back with his arms and legs out like this [indicating] making an X, and then E-S. Nothing said on it, just that picture. There is another one which I don't remember, but I am sure Mr. Hanify has all the information on it. Mr. TOLAND. You don't remember that one? Mr. LINCOLN. I don't remember it. If you recall it to my memory, I will Mr. TOLAND (interposing). I will put the boys on. The CHAIRMAN. Do you have any calendars on the wall advertising Coca-Cola and these other things? Mr. LINCOLN. No; we don't do that. We do have pictures. The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead, Mr. Toland; what is the next question. Mr. TOLAND. Isn't it fact that you distribute these bonuses to evade paying the corporate taxes to the Government of the United States? Mr. LINCOLN. That is not true. Mr. TOLAND. Isn't it a fact that you have no agreement of any kind with any labor organization in your plant? Mr. LINCOLN. Well, the labor organization is this organization which is represented by this advisory board which meets with me every 2 weeks and who have The CHAIRMAN (interposing). I don't see any labor organization. Mr. TOLAND. I am asking him if he has any collective-bargaining agreements. Mr. LINCOLN. We do with our men. Of course we do. Mr. TOLAND. Do they have an independent union there? Mr. LINCOLN. They do. I don't know what you mean by an independent union. They have no organization such as that; no. Mr. TOLAND. They don't have any collective-bargaining agency, then? Mr. LINCOLN. I said they do. We do it through this advisory board. Mr. BATES. Is it a company union? Mr. LINCOLN. It is a company union to that extent. We have had this same thing since 1914, in which one man is elected by the men from each department to meet with me, and wages, hours, and everything in connection with the activities of the company are settled by that and have been now for nearly 30 years. Mr. FLAHERTY. The men don't pay any dues? Mr. LINCOLN. They do not. The CHAIRMAN. In other words, no man has to pay anything to any labor organization to work in your plant? Mr. LINCOLN. Certainly not. Mr. BATES. How do the wages in your industry, Mr. Lincoln, compare with other industries in your particular line? Mr. LINCOLN. I would say the wages, including bonuses, are very much higher. I would say an average over the last 8 years since we have been paying this bonus-I would say an average of perhaps 30 to 40 percent as an average. The CHAIRMAN. One minute now, Mr. Toland. Mr. TOLAND. I am not through with the witness. Mr. TOLAND. How does your salary wage scale compare with other people in the city of Cleveland, excluding the bonuses? Mr. LINCOLN. Salaries, I would say, in general are very much lower. Mr. TOLAND. Very much lower? Mr. LINCOLN. Very much lower. Mr. TOLAND. You thought Jack & Heintz did perfectly all right with what they did, didn't you? Mr. LINCOLN. I did what? Mr. TOLAND. Did perfectly all right in distributing bonuses? Mr. TOLAND. Didn't you appear at one of their luncheons after they were before this committee and commend them for what they did? Mr. LINCOLN. My dear sir Mr. TOLAND (interposing). Didn't you? Mr. LINCOLN. Wait a minute; let me tell you. Mr. TOLAND. Either you did or you didn't. Now, what did you do? Mr. LINCOLN. I am president of the Cleveland Chamber of Commerce. In that function as the president of the chamber I was asked to appear before these 1,500 employees of Jack & Heintz and merely give them a word of greeting, which I did as the president of the Cleveland Chamber of Commerce. Mr. TOLAND. And didn't you go further; didn't you compliment them or commend them for what they had done, and state Mr. LINCOLN (interposing). I commended them on this, and I still do, and that is the very fine cooperation which they have in that organization. Mr. TOLAND. Didn't you say you would have done the same thing yourself? Mr. LINCOLN. I did not. Mr. TOLAND. What did you say? Mr. LINCOLN. Would you like to have me stand up and give you the speech? Mr. TOLAND. No, no. Mr. LINCOLN. I would be glad to do it. Mr. TOLAND. No, no. The CHAIRMAN. Wait one minute. Mr. TOLAND. I can understand now why they elected you president of the chamber of commerce. The CHAIRMAN. No; I can't see the pertinency of his speech before Jack & Heintz. His case stands on its merits and Jack & Heintz stands on its merits. Mr. TOLAND. Yes; there is not much difference. The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead. Mr. TOLAND. I would like to show you some agreements and ask you if you would identify them for the record. Mr. LINCOLN. This is my signature, certainly, and I haven't read it all the way through, but I would say with my signature on, it is one that I signed. Mr. TOLAND. They are stock agreements; aren't they? Mr. LINCOLN. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. What are these? Mr. TOLAND. I offer them in evidence. (The agreements referred to were received in evidence, marked "Exhibit No. 372" and are filed with the committee.) Mr. TOLAND. I show you a statement filed in behalf of your company in connection with a classification for a preference rating and ask you if the statement with regard to the business with the Government is true and correct? Mr. LINCOLN. Do you want me to read this all the way through? Mr. TOLAND. No, no; I just want you to look at it and see if you agree with it. Mr. LINCOLN. I would have to read it, I am afraid. I don't remember having seen it before. Mr. TOLAND. Read it, we will have a little silence then. Mr. Chairman, while the witness is reading that I would like to put in the record the fact that this committee sent questionnaires to this company in August of 1941 and in May of 1941 and that this company never filed or answered the questionnaires. The CHAIRMAN. Now, Mr. Lincoln, why did you not answer the questionnaires? Mr. LINCOLN. I don't know what it is. Shall I go to that or shall I finish reading this? Mr. TOLAND. Finish reading that and then take up the question naires. Mr. LINCOLN. It is hard for me to concentrate when anybody is talking; that is the only difficulty. Mr. Izac. We could all go to our offices, Mr. Chairman. Mr. TOLAND. Right. Mr. Izac. If there is nothing further for us to do here let's go home. It is 5 o'clock. The CHAIRMAN. We will get through in a minute. Mr. TOLAND. I have one more question to ask, Mr. Chairman, about the questionnaires. Mr. LINCOLN. I would say from what Mr. Dill says, I wouldn't have to read it any further. We merely tell what our function is in connection with this defense program. Mr. TOLAND. Do you accept the statements? Mr. LINCOLN. I see no reason why I shouldn't. Mr. TOLAND. I didn't ask you that. Do you accept them? Mr. LINCOLN. I would say that what Mr. Dill has said; yes. (The statement referred to was received in evidence, marked "Exhibit No. 373" and is printed in the appendix of this volume.) Mr. TOLAND. Why didn't you file the questionnaires with this committee? The CHAIRMAN. Let there be order. Mr. LINCOLN. Questionnaires with this committee? Mr. TOLAND. Yes; you received questionnaires that were sent you? Mr. LINCOLN. I don't know. I don't remember any questionnaires being received that weren't answered. Might I say this, that I would say that if we did nothing but answer questionnaires, we would not do much else. Now, remember, it is the executives of the company who are the people who have to get that information, and I would say to you that if we should answer all questionnaires as completely as they are asked, I doubt if we could do much else. Mr. TOLAND. You didn't even answer them at all? Mr. LINCOLN. Oh, yes. Great Scott, man Mr. TOLAND (interposing). Not with this committee. You have not furnished this committee any of the questionnaires that we sent to you. You haven't even replied. The CHAIRMAN. Did we write him again? Mr. TOLAND. A follow-up letter. A form letter. Mr. LINCOLN. Where is this questionnaire? Mr. TOLAND. The questionnaire is not there. This is our own record. These are the letters in addition to the questionnaires. The CHAIRMAN. I sent you a questionnaire in behalf of the committee like we sent to all other contractors who had contracts with the Navy. The record shows that we never had a response to it. We were acting under authority of the House in sending the questionnaire. Have you an explanation as to the reason, or the explanation that you just made covers it, that if you answered all questionnaires you wouldn't have any time to carry on your business? Mr. LINCOLN. No; I would say this, Mr. Chairman: Don't forget, with the tremendous expansion of business, with the tremendous expansion of the detail of business, that it is possible to have things of that kind lost in the shuffle. I can say to you that we have had that same experience in sending letters down to Washington. We have sent request after request for certain help in connection with getting materials and never gotten an answer, and we find they are lost. The CHAIRMAN. How many questionnaires were there, Mr. Toland? Mr. TOLAND. We sent him the original questionnaire, No. 1, on the 8th of May 1941, a year ago. On August 25 we sent him supplemental questionnaires 12 and 13. On August 5 we sent a follow-up letter on the general questionnaire of May 5. The CHAIRMAN. Did you ever receive a reply? Mr. TOLAND. We never received a reply, not an answer or an acknowledgment, from the company. I offer it in evidence. (Memorandum re questionnaires was received in evidence, marked "Exhibit No. 374," and is filed with the committee.) The CHAIRMAN. If the lawyer had answered those questionnaires, probably you would have been justified in that $15,000 bonus. Mr. LINCOLN. Mr. Chairman, I will give him hell, I promise you I will. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. All the witnesses are excused. The committee will take a recess until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning. (Whereupon, at 5:10 p. m., the committee recessed until 10 a. m., Thursday, May 28, 1942.) |