Mr. RAINEY. That happened on several occasions of the same sort Walker Bros., for instance. Even though there was a contract made with Walker Bros. for his conduit, the Oconite Co. it happened with

Mr. MASS (interposing). And you would explain to them that they had to comply with naval regulations and submit several bids? Mr. RAINEY. We knew nothing about the naval regulations. We were dealing with Cramp Shipbuilding Co. through Rohleder. Mr. MASS. Did Rohleder tell you it was necessary to get additional bids on each of these job orders?

Mr. RAINEY. At times, yes.

Mr. MAAS. Did anybody ever explain to you why?

Mr. RAINEY. No, sir.

Mr. MAAS. You never thought to ask why?
Mr. RAINEY. No, sir.

All we had in mind was to get the job done.

Mr. MAAS. That isn't all you had in mind, apparently. It never occurred to you that there might be any irregularity in getting bids after the work had already been let or the material delivered to the job?

Mr. RAINEY. A lot of the material was there, Mr. Maas, yes, sir. A lot of the material was there before we ever tried to get bids.

Mr. MAAS. It never occurred to you that there was any irregularity in working up bids to make the appearance it had been competitive after the stuff had been delivered?

Mr. RAINEY. No, sir; we had permission to purchase material without approval up to $200 on one contract and $100 on another contract. Mr. MAAS. Where you had that permission you didn't have to have bids?

Mr. RAINEY. We did have to have bids. They came back later and wanted bids on anything. The material had been installed for some time.

Mr. MASS. Then what happened to the permission you had? Was that withdrawn?

Mr. RAINEY. It stopped then.

Mr. MAAS. But it was a general practice, was it, for you as a subcontractor for Mr. Rohleder to order materials and then subsequently get complementary bids to justify the original order? Was that a general practice?

Mr. RAINEY. No, sir.

Mr. MAAS. How much of the supply and subcontracting that you arranged was done on that basis?

Mr. RAINEY. I would say about $4,700, a little less than $5,000.

Mr. MAAS. And the rest was all on genuine bona fide competitive bids?

Mr. RAINEY. Yes, sir; Westinghouse Electric & Manufacturing Co. furnished $100,000 of that material themselves.

Mr. COLE. Whom did you think you were working for when you were there supervising that job?

Mr. RAINEY. Rohleder. I took all my orders from Rohleder.

Mr. COLE. But you said you didn't learn until today that you were working for Rohleder.

Mr. RAINEY. I thought I said my fee was entirely from Rohleder's fee.

Mr. COLE. What was it

you said?

Mr. RAINEY. That Cramp Co. was paying part of that fee.
Mr. COLE. That you were working for Cramp?

Mr. RAINEY. The $3,500 came from Cramp. I didn't know that until today.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. You said before it came from Rohleder. Mr. RAINEY. I said I thought the $5,000 came from Rohleder's fee. Mr. COLE. I thought you said that you didn't learn until today that you were working for Rohleder.

Mr. RAINEY. That my pay roll came from Cramp.

Mr. TOLAND. Isn't it a fact that you got $125 a week from the first day, the first week ending in 1940, January 1, 1940, to October 8, 1941? Mr. RAINEY. I don't know the date of it. There was $3,500 of it. Mr. TOLAND. Didn't you get paid for a total of 40 weeks? Didn't you get the $5,000 already at $125 a week?

Mr. RAINEY. Not on the one contract.

Mr. TOLAND. On two contracts?

Mr. RAINEY. That went through on another contract. I don't know the number of it, which fee stopped

Mr. TOLAND (interposing). When we came in?

Mr. RAINEY. Yes.

Mr. TOLAND. You moved out then?

Mr. RAINEY. I didn't move out.

Mr. TOLAND. But your $125 stopped, didn't it?

Mr. RAINEY. That's right, at my request.

Mr. TOLAND. On the 8th of October, when the committee's staff was investigating the books?

Mr. RAINEY. After the committee started.

Mr. TOLAND. After we were there?

Mr. RAINEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. MAAS. Why did you request them to stop?

Mr. RAINEY. Because there was so much criticism, Mr. Maas.

Mr. MAAS. By the committee investigators?

Mr. RAINEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. COLE. Who paid you this $3,500?

Mr. RAINEY. That was paid every Friday at pay day.

Mr. COLE. By whom?

Mr. RAINEY. By Rohleder.

Mr. COLE. How did you figure that you were employed by Cramp? Mr. RAINEY. How did I figure I was employed by Cramp? I just learned that $3,500 was charged to Cramp instead of Rohleder. I thought that came out of Rohleder's own pay roll.

Mr. COLE. So far as you know, you don't know whether you were employed by Cramp or not?

Mr. RAINEY. No, sir; I do not.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. You have me confused. I think you have all of us a little bit confused. You said that you just learned today that you were employed by Rohleder, the inference being that before that you thought you were employed by Cramp. Now you say that you just learned today that you were employed by Cramp.

Mr. RAINEY. I said I learned today where the $3,500 that I received came from.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Whom were you employed by? Who introduced you when you were first given this employment on this fee basis of $5,000?

Mr. RAINEY. Rohleder.

The Acting CHAIRMAN. He was the one that you had all your business transactions with?

Mr. RAINEY. Yes, sir.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Then you thought you were working for him?

Mr. RAINEY. That is right.

Mr. COLE. What has happened today to make any change in that situation?

Mr. RAINEY. Nothing. I just found out where the money came from.

Mr. COLE. Where did you suppose Rohleder was getting his money from, out of which he was paying you?

Mr. RAINEY. I knew Cramp was making the pay roll up.

Mr. TOLAND. You were on their pay roll, weren't you?

Mr. RAINEY. I was on Rohleder's pay roll.

Mr. TOLAND. And he was getting the money from Cramp for that pay roll?

Mr. RAINEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. TOLAND. And you got $125 a week?

Mr. RAINEY. That is right.

Mr. TOLAND. And you got a total of $5,000 already, didn't you?

Mr. RAINEY. I don't know the total.

Mr. TOLAND. You got paid on two different contracts?

Mr. RAINEY. That is right.

Mr. TOLAND. Isn't it a fact that you had a contract with Rohleder to get this $5,000?

Mr. RAINEY. I had no contract with Rohleder.

Mr. TOLAND. Didn't he give you a written agreement that he was going to split with you?

Mr. RAINEY. No such thing as a split.

Mr. TOLAND. Didn't he agree to split the fee and pay you $5,000? Mr. RAINEY. He agreed to give me $5,000.

Mr. TOLAND. Didn't he do that in writing?

Mr. RAINEY. He gave me a written memorandum.

Mr. TOLAND. Right, and that is lost, isn't it?

Mr. RAINEY. That is right.

Mr. TOLAND. You can't find it?

Mr. RAINEY. No, sir.

Mr. TOLAND. Did you look hard for it?

Mr. RAINEY. Absolutely.

Mr. MAAS. After the $125 a week stopped did you stop working?

Mr. RAINEY. No, sir; I did not.

Mr. MAAS. You went on without any fee?

Mr. RAINEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. MAAS. Are you going to put a bill in for that later?

Mr. RAINEY. No, sir.

Mr. MAAS. All you got was $125 a week from that?

Mr. RAINEY. That is right.

Mr. MAAS. You are a piker. We have had companies here that paid stenographers $39,000 a year.

Mr. TOLAND. Of course, the fact is that he had a contract on which he made a profit, too, at the same time.

. Isn't it a fact that while you were doing this work at Cramp's you had many other jobs on the outside?

Mr. RAINEY. That's right.

Mr. TOLAND. During that time?

Mr. RAINEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. TOLAND. Did you spend any time on the other jobs?

Mr. RAINEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. TOLAND. You mentioned the only change that you knew was in the Anaconda contract.

Mr. RAINEY. That's right.

Mr. TOLAND. Do you remember the bid of the Anaconda Wire & General Cable Corporation?

Mr. RAINEY. That's right, I remember it.

Mr. TOLAND. Do you remember that?

Mr. RAINEY. Yes.

Mr. TOLAND. Do you know who decided that their bid should be only 1 cent different?

Mr. RAINEY. No; I don't.

Mr. TOLAND. Do you remember that the Anaconda bid was $29.673.40?

Mr. RAINEY. Approximately around that; yes, sir.

Mr. TOLAND. And that the General Cable Corporation's bid was $29,673.40?

Mr. RAINEY. Approximately.

Mr. TOLAND. Do you remember what your bid was?

Mr. RAINEY. My bid? I didn't submit a bid.

Mr. TOLAND. You didn't submit any bid?

Mr. RAINEY. No, sir.

Mr. TOLAND. That came through your office, didn't it?

Mr. RAINEY. That's right.

Mr. TOLAND. Did you have any authority from Anaconda Wire & Cable to make any change in their bid?

Mr. RAINEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. TOLAND. Who gave you that authority?

Mr. RAINEY. Their sales manager, Mr. Gargan, I think.

Mr. TOLAND. Didn't you bid on that contract?

Mr. RAINEY. There were several wire contracts.

Mr. TOLAND. Of course you bid. You bid $29,280, didn't you, $400 less than the other two companies? Isn't that a fact? There are the bid summary and bids; look at them.

Mr. RAINEY. Yes, sir; I made that bid.

Mr. TOLAND. And you said you had the authority to change it? Mr. RAINEY. Authority to change what?

Mr. TOLAND. Change the bid of the Anaconda Wire & Cable.

Mr. RAINEY. There were several bids of Anaconda Wire & Cable. Mr. TOLAND. This particular one we are talking about. You said that you had the authority to change it.

Mr. RAINEY. This one here? Not that one.

Mr. TOLAND. It was changed, wasn't it?

Mr. RAINEY. I don't know.

Mr. TOLAND. Look at it, and see if it wasn't.

Mr. RAINEY. I couldn't say whether it was or not.

Mr. TOLAND. Let me show you this statement of Mr. Gargan, dated October 29, in which he says:

"I have examined the original bid of March 18, 1941, which was prepared by me at that time. I have noted that under item No. 3 the figure has been changed from 1,000 feet to 3.000 feet, and under item No. 4 the figure has been changed from 3,000 feet to 5,000 feet. These changes were made without my consent or authorization by someone other than myself or the employees of Anaconda Wire & Cable Co. These changes in footage would not affect the per thousand foot price.

It is signed by Mr. Gargan.

Now, were you in the habit of changing bids of companies without their authority?

Mr. RAINEY. No, sir; I was not.

Mr. TOLAND. I show you the purchase order, where you were the successful bidder for that $29,000 contract.

Mr. RAINEY. That's right.

Mr. TOLAND. That was in addition to your electrical contract?
Mr. RAINEY. That's right.

Mr. TOLAND. So you were a supplier to Mr. Rohleder, weren't you?
Mr. RAINEY. We supplied this wire; yes, sir.

Mr. TOLAND. You had three different positions-an employee, a subcontractor, and a supplier-isn't that right?

Mr. RAINEY. That is right, according to this; yes, sir.

Mr. TOLAND. You made a profit on that?

Mr. RAINEY. No, sir; we did not make a profit on that.

Mr. TOLAND. Why?

Mr. RAINEY. That was sold at the same price we billed it at.

Mr. TOLAND. Why didn't you make any profit?

Mr. RAINEY. Because we were anxious for Oconite Co. to get that

wire, and they asked us to get that wire.

Mr. TOLAND. Was Rohleder an electrical contractor?

Mr. RAINEY. No, sir.

Mr. TOLAND. I offer that in evidence.

(Statement signed by F. Gargan, dated October 29, 1941, was received in evidence and marked "Exhibit No. 250.")

Mr. COLE. Do you still work for Rohleder?

Mr. RAINEY. No, sir.

Mr. COLE. The job is all completed?

Mr. RAINEY. This job; yes, sir.

Mr. COLE. The electrical end, when was it completed?

Mr. RAINEY. I would say about a month ago.

Mr. COLE. You stayed on with them, devoting 90 percent of your time until the job was completed?

Mr. RAINEY. Yes, sir. We were doing a subcontract for the other contractor on the job, W. E. Warren Co.

Mr. COLE. For about 3 or 4 months you worked for nothing?

Mr. RAINEY. Yes, sir. Our contract had been completed, and I continued to the completion of his contract. The last job was the rewiring of the I. P. Morris, which we supervised without a cent of fee and after our contracts were completed.