Mr. BALDRIDGE. Pardon me?

Mr. SUTPHIN. Give his full name to the reporter.

Mr. BALDRIDGE. I think it is H. P. Rust.

Mr. TOLAND. Now, Mr. Baldridge, on the 4th of December members of the staff interviewed you with regard to the statement that I have heretofore offered in evidence, and at that conference they confronted you with a signed statement by William Bush to the effect that, " "Mr. Baldridge of Charles F. Rohleder called me up on or about October 25, 1941, and asked me to submit the above-mentioned complimentary bid. After reading this statement, Mr. Baldridge denied knowing William Bush or having made any such request.”

Is that still your statement?

Mr. BALDRIDGE. No.

Mr. TOLAND. Do you want to change that?

Mr. BALDRIDGE. It was clarified at that meeting.

Mr. TOLAND. You later stated that you did know there was a young fellow named Bush over at this firm, that he had on one occasion spoken to him on the 'phone, and that you believed it was William Bush with whom you spoke.

You were then asked if you recalled a conference in Admiral DuBose's office about 6 weeks prior, at which Mr. Ward. Admiral DuBose, Mr. Rohleder, and Mr. Burns were present. You recalled that conference.

Mr. BALDRIDGE. Yes, sir.

Mr. TOLAND. And you were asked for an explanation of having bids written on the typewriter

because salesmen would come in and dictate the bids in his office on the ninth floor at Cramp's to the same stenographer, who would type them on the same machine.

Do you recall that?

Mr. BALDRIDGE, Yes.

Mr. TOLAND. Is that a fact?

Mr. BALDRIDGE. There were some.

Mr. TOLAND. How often?

Mr. BALDRIDGE. I wouldn't be able to tell you now.

Mr. TOLAND. Did all these bids pass over your desk?

Mr. BALDRIDGE. All of the bids passed over my desk.

Mr. TOLAND. And you never noticed the fact that the original and the carbon copies were all the same typing?

Mr. BALDRIDGE. No, sir.

Mr. TOLAND. You never noticed

Mr. BALDRIDGE (interposing). I was looking for the amount of the contract and what the bid covered.

Mr. TOLAND. You never noticed that Donnelly had signed his name as president of his own company and as president of another? Mr. BALDRIDGE. I never had Donnelly's orders.

Mr. TOLAND. You didn't?

Mr. WARD. Donnelly's came under me.

Mr. TOLAND. Donnelly came under you. Did you notice it?
Mr. WARD. I did not.

Mr. TOLAND. I want you to look at these bids, Mr. Ward, and that statement of Mr. Donnelly's, and see whether that is correct and whether you recall seeing those bids.

Mr. WARD. The statement about the letterheads is correct. I denied that before, and I accused Donnelly of making a false statement. I had forgotten all about it. I did borrow some letterheads from him. At one time I was down there and tried to get a bid out of Donnelly; he was a few blocks below Cramp, and he didn't have the bid made up. I said, "Give me a couple of letterheads, and I will go back to the office and write it up, and you can 'phone it in to me." I believe that is allowed by the Navy, submitting telephone bids. So that part is correct.

Now I can't recall these particular orders here that Donnelly denies knowing anything about, but frequently when I talked to the Atlas Iron & Steel Co., I talked to Mr. Fisher. Mr. Fisher gave me a great many quotations over the telephone. It may be possible that Fisher gave them to me and Donnelly didn't know anything about them, and that I wrote them up. I wouldn't deny that. Mr. TOLAND. Did you write many bids up yourself?

Mr. WARD. No.

Mr. TOLAND. How many, would you say?

Mr. WARD. I wouldn't say over a dozen, if I wrote that many. Mr. TOLAND. All together in your office, including confirmations of telephone bids?

Mr. WARD. That is right.

Mr. TOLAND. It is your testimony that on the matters that you handled, you always endeavored to get three bids before the job started or before the material was delivered?

Mr. WARD. Yes; I was able to get three bids before—

Mr. TOLAND. (interposing). And you did it?

Mr. WARD. Yes, sir.

Mr. TOLAND. With few exceptions. Were there a few exceptions? Mr. WARD. To the best of my knowledge, no exceptions.

Mr. TOLAND. No exceptions.

Now, Mr. Ward, at this conference on the 4th, your attention was directed to the bids of Wilt & Son and S. S. Keely, and you stated at that time that you recalled a conference of the men and that they were typed in Rohleder's office. Is that still your statement?

Mr. WARD. No; that wasn't my statement, I think, in the first place. That came from Mr. Baldridge. That was a subcontract. Mr. BALDRIDGE. I think so.

Mr. TOLAND. Is that still your statement?

Mr. BALDRIDGE. I can't say that it is true that the bids were typed in Rohleder's office.

Mr. TOLAND. Well, you did make that statement on the 4th of December.

Mr. BALDRIDGE. I made the statement, but my memory

Mr. TOLAND (interposing). I show you the bids and ask you if they are not all signed by the same person--the ones that I have asked you about-with the initial "J." And I ask you to look at the back of the preceding page and see if the ink impression isn't on the back.

While he is reading that, Mr. Ward, will you look that over and see if you agree that the statement there is correct as to what you said and if it isn't a fact that on the 4th of December you refused to sign that statement?

The question is, Mr. Baldridge, you stated at that meeting that these were prepared in your office. Is that your position today? Mr. BALDRIDGE. I don't know whether this was or not.

Mr. TOLAND. Did you examine these bids?

Mr: BALDRIDGE. When I got these bids to write out the letter, the amount of money was what I looked at and I wrote out the order accordingly and submitted it for approval.

Mr. TOLAND. You paid no attention to the fact that carbon copies of the original were used by other companies?

Mr. BALDRIDGE. No, sir.

Mr. TOLAND. That made no impression upon you at all?

Mr. BALDRIDGE. I didn't know there were any carbon copies, even. Mr. TOLAND. Well, there are carbon copies, aren't there?

Mr. BALDRIDGE. There is a carbon copy.

Mr. TOLAND. This is a carbon copy, isn't it? Haven't you ever noticed that carbon copies of bids were submitted to your contractor on different stationery from that of the company that was written on the original letterhead?

Mr. BALDRIDGE. I never examined them that close.

Mr. TOLAND. You never paid any attention?

Mr. BALDRIDGE. No, sir.

Mr. TOLAND. Price was the only thing you looked at?

Mr. BALDRIDGE. Price and the service and getting the work on the job.

Mr. TOLAND. Do you want to look at that?

I offer these in evidence.

(The proposal of Charles F. Rohleder to Cramp Shipbuilding Co. re Cramp P. O. 627 was received in evidence, marked "Exhibit No. 223," and is printed in the appendix of this volume.)

(The bids accompanying "Exhibit No. 223" were received in evidence, marked "Exhibit No. 223A" and are filed with the committee.) Mr. TOLAND. What is your statement about this memorandum of a conference between you and members of the committee's staff, Mr. Ward?

Mr. WARD. I would say that was substantially correct.

Mr. TOLAND. Is there anything in there you want to explain or change, that isn't correct?

Mr. WARD. I don't think so. I admitted the letterhead.

Mr. TOLAND. I offer it in evidence, to be printed.

(The memorandum was received in evidence and marked "Exhibit No. 224.")

MEMORANDUM OF A CONFERENCE BETWEEN INVESTIGATORS AND A. M. WARD, BUYER FOR CHARLES F. ROHLEDER

On December 4, 1941, Mr. Ward was requested to come to the office temporarily occupied by the members of the Naval Affairs Investigating Committee. Mr. Ward had previously, on December 3, 1941, signed a statement disclaiming any knowledge whatsoever of complimentary bids to Charles F. Rohleder & Co. Present at the conference were Investigators Hollenbeck, Burns, and Farris. Mr. Ward was asked whether he had anything further to add to the above statement or to change it in any way. He replied that he had not, that the statement was perfectly true and correct so far as he was concerned. He was then shown a statement signed by Joseph A. Donnelly, who is part owner of the Atlas Iron & Steel Co., which states in part: "On one occasion while I was at the Cramp Co., Mr. Ward, who is an employee of Charles F. Rohleder Co., approached

me and asked me if I would give him a few of our letterheads. I said I would and subsequently gave him 12 or 15 of the Atlas Steel & Iron Co. letterheads." Mr. Ward was very slow in reading this statement and appeared rather nervous at the conclusion, when he stated that there was not a bit of truth in this statement. He continued to the effect that he was only slightly acquainted with Mr. Donnelly and that he had never asked him for any letterheads or complimentary bids. It was brought to his attention that the bids on the Atlas Iron & Steel Co.'s letterhead which were not submitted by Mr. Donnelly did not bear a written signature and were prepared on a typewriter located on the ninth floor, where Charles F. Rohleder has his offices. Mr. Ward disclaimed any knowledge whatsoever of the transactions. He was then asked if he recalled a meeting held in Admiral DuBose's office some weeks ago at which he, Mr. Baldridge, Mr. Rohleder, Admiral DuBose, and Mr. Burns were present, at which time various complimentary bids of the Grater-Bodey Co. were under discussion. When his attention was directed to the fact that the bids of Wilt & Son and S. S. Keely, whose bids were submitted with those of Grater-Bodey, were always prepared on the same typewriter, whereas the bid of the Grater-Bodey Co. was prepared on a separate typewriter; he had stated that this was due to the fact that salesmen often dropped in at the Rohleder office on the ninth floor and typed bids on one of the Rohleder typewriters. He did recall this meeting.

(The committee has a statement from the secretary to the president of the Grater-Bodey Co. to the effect that the bids of Wilt & Son and S. S. Keely were prepared on one typewriter in the Grater-Bodey office while the bid of that firm was prepared on another typewriter in that office.)

Mr. Ward was then asked if he could name one salesman who had typed his bids in the office at Cramp of the Charles F. Rohleder Co. After much hesitation he replied that it had happened so often and so long ago that he could not recall offhand any one individual who had done this. He then said that he had seen Mr. Roberts of the Grater-Bodey Co. type a bid in the Charles Rohleder office. He stated, however, that bids of this company were handled by Mr. Baldridge and that he could not state for sure whether or not the bids were handed to Mr. Baldridge after being typed or in fact what happened to them. Mr. Burns then said to Mr. Ward that "You have not, then, actually seen any salesman type a bid in your office which bid was subsequently submitted to Rohleder." Mr. Ward replied that he hadn't. He was then asked if he would sign a statement to the effect that to his knowledge he had never seen a salesman submit a bid which had been typed in his office on the ninth floor and which bid was subsequently made a part of the Cramp files. He replied that he would not sign such a statement.

Mr. Baldridge was then requested to come to the office and after his arrival Mr. Ward was permitted to leave.

Mr. WARD. Of course, Mr. Baldridge is concerned with some of that, too.

Mr. TOLAND. He has his own statement.

I offer in evidence the statement of Mr. Donnelly who was a witness yesterday, dated December 2, 1941, in which he says:

I have examined the following bids prepared on the stationery of our company (Atlas Iron & Steel Co.); August 7, 1941, in the sum of $23.50 (p. 172); August 12, 1941, in the sum of $15; August 7, 1941, in the sum of $23 (p. 178); July 16, 1941, in the sum of $15.

These bids were not prepared by anyone in the Atlas Iron & Steel Co. office.

We have done approximately 15 jobs for Charles F. Rohleder. On one occasion while I was at the Cramp Co., Mr. Ward, who is an employee of Charles F. Rohleder Co., approached me and asked me if I would get him a few of our letterheads. I said I would and subsequently gave him 12 or 15 of the Atlas Steel & Iron Co. letterheads.

I have previously given a statement to Mr. Burns, of your committee.

I offer these in evidence; the bids are not to be printed.

(The statement of Joseph A. Donnelly, dated December 2, 1941, was received in evidence and marked "Exhibit No. 225.")

(The bids and bid summaries were received in evidence, marked "Exhibits No. 226 through 226-K," and were filed with the committee.)

Mr. TOLAND. Mr. Ward, did Mr. Rohleder recommend you to Murphy-Quigley & Co.?

Mr. WARD. No.

Mr. TOLAND. Did you get any letter from him?

Mr. WARD. No. I have known Murphy-Quigley & Co. for years. They called me up and asked me if I was finished with Rohleder, that if I was, they would like to have me come to work for them. That is the way I went to work for Murphy-Quigley.

Mr. TOLAND. What is your compensation there?

Mr. WARD. Seventy-five dollars a week.

Mr. TOLAND. The same that you were getting at the other place? Mr. WARD. No; I was getting $50 at Rohleder's.

Mr. COLE. Mr. Ward, who told you that you had to have two or three or more bids?

Mr. WARD. We never had any written instructions on it at all. Those instructions came verbally; I don't know. I got them from Mr. Rohleder. I don't know where they originated.

Mr. COLE. I asked you who told you.

Mr. WARD. I don't remember. I think it was Mr. Rohleder.

Mr. COLE. What do you suppose the reason for that was? What was the purpose of requiring three or more bids?

Mr. WARD. I would say to get the best possible price for the materials purchased.

Mr. COLE. And yet, in spite of that, you had stationery in your desk of various firms from which you were buying stuff, on which you filled out and submitted a bid in the name of that other company.

Mr. WARD. From their telephone bid; yes.

Mr. COLE. Did you ask them the price you should insert, or did you insert it and ask them if it was all right?

Mr. WARD. No, sir; I got the price over the phone and wrote it up. Mr. COLE. Did any of these firms for whom you submitted a bid ever get an award? Did they ever get the job?

Mr. WARD. Oh, yes.

Mr. COLE. Name a few of them, can you?

Mr. WARD. Kraft Hardware, Atlas Iron, Murta-Appleton, Jameś Peters.

Mr. COLE. Those were concerns whose stationery you had in your office and whose bids you made up for them after a consultation with them?

Mr. WARD. That is correct.

Mr. TOLAND. Mr. Baldridge, is the statement you are reading correct?

Mr. BALDRIDGE. In this statement, certain parts of it seem to be distorted.

Mr. TOLAND. Will you state for the record what part of it you think is not what you said?

Mr. BALDRIDGE. With reference to this man Bush, I do know William Bush and have called him on the phone and asked him for bids; particularly one bid I called him on, which I think is the bid that I referred to, Mr. Burns showed me. It was for some work that never went ahead. It was on a quantity of material that I gave him over the phone and asked him to send me a bid on that quantity of material, which he did.