50 percent, or 8.45; and 1.5 went directly to utilities, which you plan to discontinue, and the balance went to the large manufacturer users. Mr. WESSENAUER. I think, Mr. Wigglesworth, if we will follow Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Is that not substantially a correct statement? I would like to get an answer to the questions propounded rather than statements about them them. Is not the statement contained in the question substantially correct? Mr. KAMPMEIER. I would suggest only one modification: You spoke of the availability of 16.2 billion kilowatt-hours. The amount available for sale is only 13.7 billion kilowatt-hours. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. But the figures are correct, and show 16.2 billion kilowatt-hours available for distribution. Mr. KAMPMEIER. That is correct, but not all of that amount was available to the customers served from our system. The 16.2 billion kilowatt-hours represents the total output of TVA's plants plus the output of the power plants belonging to the Aluminum Co. If you allow for transmission losses and the portion which is generated by the Aluminum Co. plants and returned to them, which is not available to our customers, there is available only 13.7 billion killowatt-hours, of which the preferred customers used 8.5 billion kilowatt-hours. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Yes, 8.48. Mr. KAMPMEIER. That is 8.48 billion kilowatt-hours out of 13.72 billion, or 62 percent. If secondary power were excluded, the percentage would be even higher. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. The figures show 16.2 billion kilowatt-hours available for distribution. PRESENT OVER-ALL INVESTMENT IN TVA Mr. Clapp, what is the present, over-all investment in the TVA? Mr. CLAPP. The investment in the power system? Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. The over-all investment. Mr. CLAPP. The over-all investment in flood-control, navigation, and power facilities is about $740,000,000. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How much for each? Mr. CLAPP. Power, on an original cost basis, would be about $480,000,000; flood control about $153,000,000, and navigation about $149,000,000. Those figures do not reflect depreciation. Mr. TABER. Were there some incidental costs. I understood you to say the total was $740,000,000. Mr. CLAPP. I should have said $780,000,000, Mr. Taber; I am sorry. Mr. TABER. I thought the figures did not add up. PROHIBITION AGAINST CONSTRUCTION OF STEAM PLANTS BY CUSTOMERS UNDER CONTRACTS Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You have made reference to the contracts. Do I understand you correctly to say that you prohibit customers from constructing steam plants? Mr. CLAPP. There is no prohibition specifically relating to steam plants. The contract with the distributors sets up the TVA as the exclusive supplied of power. The reasons why the contract contain those provisions, I think are fairly simple. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What provisions. I am trying to find out if there is or if there is not a provision in the contract which prohibits the construction of steam plants. Mr. CLAPP. The practical effect may be the same as such a provision. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. The answer is "Yes" or "No," is it not? Mr. CLAPP. They could not build and operate a steam plant without a violation of their contract. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. In other words their answer is "Yes"? Mr. CLAPP. If I understand the question to be whether the contract prevents the cities from building steam plants, as the contracts are presently written, the answer is "Yes." ANTICIPATED PRODUCTION OF NEW GENERATORS Mr. TABER. I have one other question. What will these new generators that you expect to have, and for which you are asking, produce? They will produce how much power. Mr. CLAPP. In the supplemental program, Mr. Taber? Mr. TABER. Whatever you have under construction; that you are planning, that is, the ones you have in this program. Mr. CLAPP. The ones that we have in this program are the two hydro units, which will add 53,000 kilowatts, to the assured capacity Mr. TABER. You mean both of them? Mr. CLAPP. That is right. Mr. TABER. Not each? Mr. CLAPP. No; together. Mr. TABER. And how much other generating, hydro generation is in contemplation with reference to the dams that are already built? Mr. CLAPP. We have additional TVA installations underway and authorized of 348,000 kilowatts. Mr. TABER. Three hundred forty-eight thousand? Mr. CLAPP. Yes. Mr. TABER. And you expect to get them in operation when? Mr. CLAPP. They will be in operation by the latter part of 1950, or early in 1951. Mr. TABER. With reference to this new dam you have under construction: how much will that add? Mr. CLAPP. The power installation of that dam is included in the figure of 348,000 kilowatts. Mr. TABER. That has already been included. Mr. CLAPP. That is right. Mr. TABER. The Cumberland is supposed to produce 450,000? Mr. CLAPP. Approximately. A part of that capacity is already in service; the first unit, at Dale Hollow. Mr. TABER. That is the 18? Mr. CLAPP. That is 18,000 kilowatts. Mr. TABER. What about the 425. Mr. CLAPP. 423,000 kilowatts is the amount under construction. Mr. TABER. Of the prospective increase in the system? Mr. CLAPP. That is right. Mr. TABER. You have 2,600,000 present capacity? Mr. CLAPP. That is correct. Mr. TABER. And the 423, plus the 53, plus the 348 is the capacity you should have the way it stands, in 1951? Mr. CLAPP. That is correct, with the addition of a 30,000-kilowatt unit which the Aluminum Co. is putting in at an existing dam. Mr. TABER. That is 30,000? Mr. CLAPP. That is right. Mr. KAMPMEIER. There is one qualification that should be made, that instead of 1951, the completion date for the Cumberland capacity should be 1952. Mr. TABER. We will call it 1952 then. That will make a total of 3,854,000 kilowatts; and this letter to the chairman indicates that your demand would be 2,230,000. That is correct, is it not? Mr. CLAPP. There is a distinction that should be pointed out in regard to those figure. Those figures which you have been adding up give the installed capacity or the name plate rating of the units. The figures that are used in our letter to Mr. Cannon refer to the assured capacity which is the ability of the units to carry the load after taking into consideration the effect of reservoir operations and provision for reserve capacity. Mr. TABER. Let us take the 2,950,000 which you have in here--I do not know just how you arrive at it. And I do not know how things run now; I used to know, but the generators will all stand a 25-percent margin, will they not? Mr. CLAPP. You mean they can be overloaded? Mr. TABER. They can be; and they will stand up under a considerable amount of overloading? Mr. CLAPP. That is a question which either Mr. Wessenauer or Mr. Kampmeier can answer better than I. Mr. TABER. I am not up to date on that subject. It used to be done. Mr. WESSENAUER. Some of the machinery will stand overloading, and we have figured the possible overloading in determining the assured capacity. But you must also make allowance for the fact that at the time of the year when the peak load occurs some of the capacity may be out for repair. In addition, we need a certain amount of capacity to take care of momentary load variations, as contrasted with the hourly peak-load figures which are given here. We must also make allowance for the fact that some capacity may be unavailable, because of the fact that the head at some of the plants may be reduced, either because of the draw-down in the storage reservoirs, or because of the tail water being up due to high flows on the main river. In figuring the assured capacity, or the amount of load that can be safely carried with a given installation, those factors must be taken into account. For the present system, plus capacity which is authorized in November of 1951, before any of the proposed additions come in, the installed capacity will be about 3,300,000 kilowatts, and the assured capacity will be 2,956,000 kilowatts. Mr. TABER. Before any of them come in? Mr. WESSENAUER. Before the units under the supplemental program come in at Chickamauga and Guntersville and the steam plant. Mr. TABER. That will apply to Cumberland; some of it to Cumberland? Mr. WESSENAUER. Including such portions as would be completed by that time, yes. Mr. TABER. Any part of it. Mr. WESSENAUER. There will be about 135,000 kilowatts of Cumberland capacity that will not be completed in 1951. Those units and the units involved in the supplemental appropriation are not in the 3,300,000 kilowatts of installed capacity. Mr. TABER. I have the figure of 3,800,000. Mr. WESSENAUER. That is the capacity, including the supplement. I believe you have added the 53,000 at Chickamauga and Guntersville, plus the 375,000 kilowatts from steam plants, plus the 135,000 kilowatts Mr. TABER. No; I am not adding the steam plants; only the steam plants that are already in. I have the figures you gave me for Cumberland, 423,000 in new generators that are already in, or are already in sight; 53,000 Mr. WESSENAUER. No Mr. TABER. At the new dam or at the other generating dams that you expect to have in before 1952, 348,000; and the Aluminum Co. set-up, makes the total 3,854,000. Mr. WESSENAUER. Let me see if my figures check with yours. I start with 2,650,000 kilowatts with the present installation. Mr. TABER. Yes. Mr. WESSENAUER. Then we have the 348,000 kilowatts being added at the TVA plants, plus the 30,000 kilowatts at the Alcoa plant. Mr. TABER. Plus the 423,000 for Cumberland. That should be in by 1951 or 1952. Mr. WESSENAUER. Yes. Mr. TABER. And the 53,000 of generators, besides the 348,000, which is not a part of the 348,000 figures. Mr. WESSENAUER. No. Mr. TABER. The total of those figures is 3,904,000. Mr. WESSENAUER. I get only 3,504,000 kilowatts. Mr. TABER. If I made a mistake I should correct it, of course. As I get the figures now, it is 3,504,000. Mr. WESSENAUER. 3,504,000; yes. Mr. KAMPMEIER. That would be the total in 1952, without the steam plant. Mr. WESSENAUER. That is the installed capacity. If you make allowance for the reserve which you need to have, the assured peak capacity of the system will be about 3,100,000 kilowatts by the end of 1952. Mr. TABER. This would leave you a peak capacity, after these deductions are made, of about 3,100,000. Mr. WESSENAUER. Yes. Mr. TABER. That is, effective capacity. Mr. TABER. Is that about the best way to describe it? Mr. WESSENAUER. I think that is a good word, the effective capacity. Mr. TABER. Some of it works out like this, where you had a block of some of your machinery, because of the high water in the tail races, down below and also up above you might have more than the 100 capacity, with the opportunity to overload because of the additional water. Mr. WESSENAUER. Yes. Mr. TABER. And you would have to take all of that into consideration if you were to figure it out correctly. Mr. WESSENAUER. That is right, and one of the largest items in the reduction from the 3,500,000 kilowatts to 3,100,000 kilowatts is the effect of holding the reservoirs at a low level during the winter months to provide necessary flood-storage capacity. The result of that is to reduce the head on the turbines, and the capacity of the turbines is substantially reduced. At Norris, for example, the normal capacity of 100,000 kilowatts is reduced during the flood season to some 60,000 kilowatts, because of the reservation of flood-storage capacity. Mr. TABER. They do not draw the lakes down much, do they? Mr. TABER. How much? Mr. WESSENAUER. Very substantially. Between 40 and 80 feet at Norris, for example. Mr. TABER. They do? Mr. WESSENAUER. The normal elevation when full is 1,020 feet, and it may be down to between elevation 935 and 960. Mr. TABER. That is all I have. Mr. KERR. Thank you, gentlemen. FRIDAY, JANUARY 28, 1949. FEDERAL SECURITY AGENCY SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION BUREAU OF PUBLIC ASSISTANCE STATEMENTS OF MISS JANE M. HOEY, DIRECTOR; MISS KATHRYN D. GOODWIN, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR; SAYA T. SCHWARTZ, CHIEF, OPERATING STATISTICS SECTION; ANDREW R. N. TRUELSON, CHIEF, DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATION; ROY L. WYNKOOP, ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER; AND ROBERT W. BROWN, BUDGET EXAMINER, FEDERAL SECURITY AGENCY GRANTS TO STATES FOR PUBLIC ASSISTANCE Mr. KERR. Miss Hoey, you are before us in reference to a supplemental appropriation contained in House Document No. 44 for grants to States for public assistance? Miss HOEY. That is right. Mr. KERR. And you are making a request for an additional amount of $151,000,000. We will be glad to hear from you or any other member of your Bureau. GENERAL STATEMENT Miss HOEY. The Social Security Act-titles I, IV, and X-provides that the Federal Government shall make grants-in-aid to the States for programs of old-age assistance, aid to dependent children, and aid to the blind. Under the terms of the act a State wishing to request |