Senator YARBOROUGH. Mr. Dix, your statement has been so eloquent and full, and your comment on the other testimony so concise and ably put, that I have no specific questions.

But I associate myself with the remarks of our distinguished chairman in congratulating you on it, and I sat here thinking that you were an advocate, a teacher and a stimulator of thought at the same time, because, like our chairman, what you said stimulated my thinking. I went back in your prepared statement to where you described the progress of man from the hunter in the forest to the development of materials, the transfer of progressive thoughts, and I thought of all of this being encompassed within the lifetime of one man, Sequoia. He was a simple hunter, and as he grew to manhood he wondered how the whites could defeat the Cherokees, and he came to the conclusion it was their ability to read and write and transmit information. So, he set out and spent a lifetime developing an alphabet for the Cherokees. He wrote on birch bark and laboriously composed that alphabet by which he could take adult Cherokees at 40 years of age and teach them to read and write in 6 weeks, and he could publish newspapers in the Cherokee language, so that the white settlers around them became so jealous and fearful that they drove him out and drove the Cherokees over the trail to Oklahoma, not because of the inferiority but because of the fear of their growing greatness. One man went through that whole experience in his lifetime.

Mr. Dix. Thank you, Senator, and if I might interpose simply to express my thanks for this reference. Sequoia, the great Cherokee, inventor of the Cherokee alphabet, has long been a great friend of mine in history.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Well, I admire him, too, and I think of that tragic incident when he went to California to see the great trees, exploring the trees that remained there, and while he was gone his Cherokee wife, thinking that these characters were communications he was having with the devil burned all of his records, his years of work. He came back and started all over again trying to recollect and reconstruct those characters. I think it is one of the great stories of human history, the life of Sequoia.

I want to congratulate Princeton on what it has contributed to this Nation. I know you speak not only for Princeton here but for the American Library Association and the Association of Research Libraries, but with the two Presidents it has given to the Nation--and Madison, I believe, the Bill of Rights; and Woodrow Wilson and the 14 Points and the League of Nations. Woodrow Wilson had a tremendous impact personally on my State. Texas had never had a Cabinet officer in the United States until Woodrow Wilson was President. It was a long convention in Baltimore, and the 40 Texas votes stayed with him from the first, and there was a long deadlock, I believe there were 46 ballots, or something in that neighborhood before the deadlock was broken. As the result, he appointed three Cabinet officers from Texas, though one was accredited to Missouri. Houston, the Secretary of Agriculture, had been president of two universities in Texas but still had his voting precinct in my hometown of Austin. Thomas Watts Gregory, the Attorney General, and Albert Sidney Burleson, both of whom I knew later, after them came out of the Cabinet where they were the Attorney General and Postmaster General, respectively, and

all three voted at that time in one precinct in the city of Austin. It was the same precinct that Colonel House voted in, incidentally. So, those things we attribute to Princeton.

I have no further questions.

Senator PELL. Senator Schweiker?

Senator SCHWEIKER. I would like to begin by saying my administrative assistant is a Princeton graduate, if that will help.

Well, I would like to ask Dr. Dix whether-he mentioned in his statement about the fact that the $500,000 authorization seemed small, "but I believe that very substantial progress could be accomplished with this."

Do I gather from that, Doctor, that you think that for the foreseeable future that this probably will be sufficient to meet the immediate needs; is that what you are saying in that?

Mr. Dix. I do not think that is what I am saying.

Senator SCHWEIKER. Well, then, go ahead and clarify it.

Mr. Dix. I must confess that I really have not given any particular thought to the budgeting. The temporary Commission report, I believe, proposed no specific sum. I believe that the amount in Senator Yarborough's bill was obviously, for this first year, rather arbitrarily fixed at what would be a reasonable amount. Based, I believe, on the expenditure of the temporary Commission, this gave some indication of what a permanent Commission of this sort might need. I would say, sir, that I like the provision of the bill itself where it is arbitrary for the first year, with later authorizations to be decided on the basis of the need determined during the first year. I think this is a sufficiently new kind of enterprise so that we really do not know what it will cost. I think that that is the way it will have to be. I do not mean to suggest that you should escalate very fast, but I think no one knows at this time.

So, I will have to say that I simply have no opinion on the size of the appropriation that would be required in the future.

Senator SCHWEIKER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator YARBOROUGH. I have one further question of Dr. Dix. You mentioned the reports of this Commission that was appointed by Executive order. Did you say there were six reports?

Mr. Dix. There are more than that. They are mentioned in the Commission document itself. I think they are numbered there. There were 13 separate studies.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Do you know how many pages it would be? Did you discuss whether they had been printed or not, or would be printed? Or do you have any idea of how thick that would be, or how many pages, printed say on paper with the size of the print that have there, that size type?

you

Mr. Dix. No, sir; I do not. The ones that I have seen run anywhere from 30 to 100 pages of type-mimeograph document, but I do not know about the others. I have seen casually only a few, because I happened to be close to the people who did them, but I have not seen the full document.

Senator YARBOROUGH. I am going to direct the staff to assemble a set of those documents and obtain them for the committee.

I will consider them in the total volume, the cost, and I am going to consider-I want them to communicate wtih that Commission-Do

you know whether there are any plans to print them, or any part of them?

Mr. Dix. It is my understanding there are such plans. Later you will hear testimony from Mrs. Merlin Moore who was a member of that Commission, and she may be better able to elaborate.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Well, then, we will inquire further.

Mr. Dix. I believe that President Knight, who was the Chairman of that Commission, has planned a volume to be published commercially, which will contain the essence of those documents, but I am sure that Mrs. Moore will elaborate.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Well, then, we will hold that until further. Thank you.

Senator PELL. Thank you very much, indeed, Mr. Dix. It was very good to have you and we are glad you came here.

Mr. Dix. Thank you, again, Mr. Chairman.

Senator PELL. Our next witness is actually the lady to whom you referred, Mrs. Merlin Moore, State department of education, Little Rock, Ark.

Mrs. Moore, will you proceed as you will. You have a fine statement here, you can either read it or comment on it.

STATEMENT OF MRS. MERLIN MOORE, SUPERVISOR, ECONOMIC EDUCATION, STATE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, LITTLE ROCK, ARK.

Mrs. MOORE. I would like to read it and then comment briefly, sir. I would like to thank you for allowing me the privilege of testifying before this committee and I hope that I will be of some value to you. I will read my statement first.

My name is Mrs. Merlin M. Moore. I am appearing in support of S. 1519, a bill to set up a permanent National Commission on Libraries and Information Science.

I am supervisor of economic education in the Arkansas State Department of Education, and am chairman of the Arkansas Library Commission.

During 1967 and 1968, I served as an appointed member of the National Advisory Commission on Libraries, established by Executive order on September 2, 1966, to appraise the role of all types of libraries in the United States, to study their needs, to evaluate their services to users, and to make recommendations which would lead to the betterment of libraries in the future.

In pursuing its work, the Commission held numerous meetings, sent out a panel of its members to 12 regional conferences in all parts of the country, and had more than a dozen special studies on pertinent library problems prepared for it.

It was my good fortune to chair most of the public hearings which the Commission held in the various parts of the Nation, I would like to say to Senator Yarborough that one of the most effective hearings we had was on the campus of Texas Tech in Lubbock. And I would also like to say to you, Mr. Chairman, that we had a hearing scheduled in New England also, and unfortunately the hearings cost more than we thought they would and we ran out of money, and we regretted that reduced schedule very much.

We were able to obtain at first hand the opinions of people representing diverse fields, of all ages, educational levels, and occupations, on what they needed from libraries, how well they were being served, and any difficulties being experienced.

During the regional hearings held by the Advisory Commission, many witnesses suggested ways in which the problems facing libraries might be solved. These suggestions included an instrumentality for advising, planning, coordinating, and evaluating, which was mentioned 219 times.

This testimony certainly supports the Commission's recommendation for a permanent National Commission on Libraries and Information Science.

Other ideas involved Federal, State, regional, and local cooperation, mentioned 202 times; and the effective application of technological advances, cited 132 times.

These two areas would seem to be two of the most obvious items meriting the attention of the permanent Commission.

The evidence came in, clear and convincing, that education, science, technology, business, culture, and other phases of human activity are dependent for progress upon coordinated systems of libraries-school, college, university, research, public, and others.

However, the facts given the Commission showed that there was a great disparity in the quality of libraries of all kinds across the country. Attention must be given to a development program which will meet the needs of the user whoever he is, whether he be a preschool child, a scholar doing research, a businessman seeking a solution to a vexing problem, a student in an inner city school, or a sheepherder out on the plains.

The "knowledge explosion" has been putting ever greater demands upon U.S. citizens who are preparing themselves, or who wish to prepare themselves, to meet the challenge of this modern age.

The Commission also found that a large number of Americans were not using the educational resources of these libraries and information centers, either because they do not know about them or because they do not have sufficient reading skills.

If this Nation is to achieve its full potential of progress in all lines, both the readers and the nonreaders must be brought within the coverage and influence of libraries.

The findings of the temporary Advisory Commission's report were embodied in a report, "Library Services for the Nation's Needs: Toward the Fulfillment of a National Policy."

This was reprinted in the Congressional Record for October 21, 1968, referred to repeatedly in this hearing.

The document sets forth these objectives for overcoming current inadequacies in our libraries and information science, all of them well to keep in mind in arguing for a permanent commission:

1. Provide adequate library and informational services for formal education at all levels;

2. Provide adequate library and informational services for the public at large:

3. Provide materials to support research at all levels:

4. Provide adequate bibliographical access to the Nation's research and informational resources;

5. Provide adequate physical access to required materials or their texts throughout the Nation;

6. Provide adequate trained personnel for varied and changing demands of librarianship.

In its study of libraries and information science, the temporary Commission was constantly thwarted by the lack of adequate statistics on library resources, costs, personnel, and other administrative and planning factors. This condition applied to libraries of every type.

Statistical information was either out of date or nonexistent.

Sound planning must be based on sound figures. A permanent Commission could be effective in reporting this need on a continuing basis and insisting upon a solution.

Members recognized that problems of all kinds of libraries needed to be studied in depth before solutions could be found. Moreover, these problems needed to be studied in relation to the educational process of which libraries are an essential part.

But even the finest temporary commission on libraries can make recommendations which last at best only a relatively short time.

The needs of people change and the institutions serving them inevitably change. A permanent commission is needed to keep library planning adjusted to the altering needs.

For the reasons advanced in this statement, I wish to go on record as emphatically in favor of S. 1519.

In closing, Mr. Chairman, I wish to express my appreciation to you and to your committee for the opportunity afforded me to present testimony on this much needed legislation.

I would like to make a few additional comments, if I may. First of all, I would like to comment on the makeup of the proposed Commission. The temporary National Commission felt that the people appointed to this permanent Commission should be of such stature that they would command respect throughout the Nation.

We did not think that this membership should be in any way limited to categories. We thought perhaps a third of the membership, five, should be outstanding librarians and information scientists. The others we thought should be stature representatives of the general public, and we thought also that they should be appointed by the President of the United States with the advice and consent of the Senate.

These would be the kinds of people we envisage to do this job; people who have a deep understanding of the goals of our society. They would understand the need for economic growth, for example, for efficiency in our society, and for social justice, and could point these things out to the people in general. The Commission would have the kind of people to which citizens all over the Nation would listen.

As a case in point, at the regional hearings we were constantly told about the archaic laws which prevent library development in the States, and while this Commission would have no power except the power of recommendation, many times in the testimony it came out that if such a commission could guide and lead, these States would listen to this kind of advice.

Furthermore, the Commission could advise the Congress and the President on the library needs of the country, and we envision a much larger role for this Commission than is suggested in Mr. Venn's testi