363 PRIVATE COUNSEL FEES Mr. SMITH. Are there any funds included in the budget of the Civil Division or any other portion of the Department of Justice budget for the payment of private counsel fees? 364 MS. BABCOCK. We just sought that in our supplemental. Mr. JAFFE. It's not in the 1978 request. The reason for that, I should add, is that OMB only authorized us to ask for it for one year, for the 1977 supplemental. It does not mean that we may not need it. Mr. SMITH. Thank you very much. Ms. BABCOCK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [The remainder of the hearing has been deleted] Exhibit 21: Excerpts From Senate Hearings on Justice Department Appropriations for Fiscal Year 1978 DEPARTMENTS OF STATE, JUSTICE, AND COMMERCE, THE JUDICIARY, AND RE LATED AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS FOR FISCAL YEAR 1978 HEARINGS BEFORE A SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE NINETY-FIFTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION ON H.R. 7556 AN ACT MAKING APPROPRIATIONS FOR THE DEPARTMENTS OF STATE, JUSTICE, AND COMMERCE, THE JUDICIARY, AND RELATED AGENCIES FOR THE FISCAL YEAR ENDING SEPTEMBER 30, 1978, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES PART 6-(Pages 641-1426) ARCHITECT OF THE CAPITOL EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT JAPAN-UNITED STATES FRIENDSHIP COMMISSION SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations 84-937 O U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE WASHINGTON: 1977 [Pages 1-650 of the hearings have been deleted] 651 April 26, 1977 OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL STATEMENT OF GRIFFIN B. BELL, ATTORNEY GENERAL PETER F. FLAHERTY, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL KEVIN D. ROONEY, ACTING ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL WILLIAM D. VAN STAVOREN, ACTING DIRECTOR, MANAGE- GILBERT M. LEIGH, JR., DEPUTY DIRECTOR, MANAGEMENT [Pages 652-668 of the hearings have been deleted] 669 PRIVATE COUNSEL FEES Senator WEICKER. This brings me into the question that arose several weeks ago. The Department was up here for almost $5 million for private counsel fees for former Government employees. The House rejected the request. The Senate restored the money with a great deal of reluctance. The conferees provided $1,860,000 to recover the funds immediately. What do you plan to do with the remainder of the cases? Attorney General BELL. That is one of the big complaints that the FBI has; Congress didn't give them that favorable treatment. Senator WEICKER. It was the other side of the coin. Attorney General BELL. We haven't hired any lawyers since I have been there. That is something I found when I arrived. I am doing my best to work out of it. The thought was, the question was on defense in civil suits. If as person was also under investigation in a criminal case, the Department of Justice would be in a conflict of interest. Therefore, we thought the Government ought to pay for outside counsel. That is how it all started. These FBI people have not any civil litigation. 84-937 -77 - pt. 6--3 670 The answer is they haven't consulted with anyone. We have got a lot of suits going against Government people who thought they were doing their duty. The FBI people are having to stand alone in their suits. But when we put out the swine flu shot program, Congress didn't have any trouble at all in passing a law to let the Government be liable in damages for the swine flu serum manufacturers. I handle those cases every day. It strikes me as odd that we do our own workers that way, but we take care of the drug manufacturers. You might think about that. Senator WEICKER. I don't quite find the parallel. What do you suggest? Attorney General BELL. I suggest that we take care of our employees when they are sued for damages and they were within the parameter of their assigned duty. Senator WEICker. Do you consider breaks-ins-we are talking about ordinary straight burglary Attorney General BELL. Whatever it was, there are many questions: whether it was foreign or domestic intelligence, whether they did it under orders or not. Any citizen can use the courts and run the employee through them. It is a serious problem. I think from my own standpoint, if somebody takes a job and makes a career as an FBI agent and then he is sued, it is a difficult situation when his own Government turns on him in the sense that they don't stand behind him. There is a lot more to the question than just saying you ought not to be paying these lawyers. To answer your specific question on the FBI, none of their lawyers have been paid by us. [Pages 671-686 of the hearings are deleted] 687 SUBMITTED QUESTIONS Senator HOLLINGS. Very good. I have some other general questions for the record. We appreciate very much your appearance here this morning. [The following questions were not asked at the hearing, but were submitted to the Department for responses subsequent to the hearing:] [Pages 688-694 of the hearings are deleted] 695 Private Counsel Fees In the Conference on the Supplemental Appropriations Act we provided only the $1,860,000 required for the private counsel fees of the cases already in progress. We also directed that no additional representation be contracted until the Judiciary Committee reviewed the Attorney General's Order on these payments. 1. How much is budgeted in the 1978 estimates for private counsel fees? None at present, although it appears that appropriatione for private counsel fees in FY 1978 will be required. 696 ༡ Tut level of contracted representation does the Department now anticipate? How does the Department expect to handle the $3 million in fees originally estimated for 1977 that was not allowed in the Conference Report? (i.e. the Socialist Workers Party and the other cases that have not yet commenced.) We believe that the original estimate of $4.8 million to be a relatively accurate one, although it now appears that expenditures in some cases have not been at the anticipated rate and one suit (Kipperman v. McCone) has been decided in defendants' favor and plaintiff did not appeal. In addition to the small savings effected by these events, the Department is exploring possible means, consistent with our ethical obligations, to impose further controls on priviate counsel fees. [Pages 697-832 of the hearings are deleted] |