General SHULER. No, Mr. Bates, I don't.

Of course, from my knowledge, authorization and appropriations go together on all progams except this particular type of a program that is MCA, where it is separate legislation. I don't know whether they have actually thought about the mechanics on this particular program or not, sir.

Mr. BATES. We have authorized many items with ceilings.

General SHULER. Yes.

Mr. BATES. And they operate within those ceilings.

General SHULER. Yes, sir.

Mr. BATES. But the number of people you have in the Armed Forces: that is all subject to authorization.

General SHULER. Yes, sir.

Mr. BATES. Except that we don't change it very often.

General SHULER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, the committee strikes out section 103.

Mr. HUDDLESTON. Mr. Chairman, I have just one question to ask about this, if I may.

Mr. RIVERS. That is the whole section?

Mr. HUDDLESTON. General, this provision has been in these bills before, hasn't it?

General SHULER. Mr. Congressman, we asked for this same type of provision last year-I believe $5 million—and so did the Air Force. I am not sure about the Navy.

May I say something off the record, Mr. Chairman?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir.

General SHULER. This is off the record.

(Further statement off the record.)

The CHAIRMAN. The same treatment will be given to all of them,

if I have my way.

Mr. RIVERS. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, section 103 is stricken.

(Further remarks directed off the record.)

The CHAIRMAN. Now, section 104, it occurs to me, is all right.
Without objection, we agree to section 104.

Then that brings us to the Capehart housing.

General SHULER. The Capehart housing program is as follows:

Department of the Army, fiscal year 1959, family housing program

Capehart programs-11,477 units at 38 installations (TAC sites considered as 1 installation).

MCA programs: 158 units at 4 installations.

Surplus commodity programs: 934 units in 4 countries.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, Mr. Kelleher, please designate which ones have already been approved by the subcommittee.

Mr. KELLEHER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And the full committee.

Mr. KELLEHER. Yes, sir.

Starting on page 9, line 2, Redstone approved.
The CHAIRMAN. Let me check it. O.K.

Mr. KELLEHER. Line 4, 75 units, approved at White Sands-75 of the 275; line 6, Fort Lee, 150 units of the 435; line 7, all of Natick; line 8, all of Fort Belvoir; line 9, all of Two Rock Ranch Station; line 10, all of Dugway; line 11, all of Beaumont; line 12, all of Fort Dix; line 13, 72 of the 130 units at Fort Totten; line 14, all of Fort Bragg; line 15, all of Fort Campbell; line 16, all of Granite City; line 20 all of Fort Bliss; line 21, all of Fort Hood;

On page 10, line 3, all of Fort Sheridan; line 5, all of Oakland; line 6, 375 units of the 1,231 units at Fort Lewis; line 7, 60 of the 160 units at the disciplinary barracks in California; line 10, all of Bossier Base; line 12, all of Medina Base; line 13, all of Sandia Base; line 14, all of the 492 units for the Army Air Defense Command stations. The CHAIRMAN. Now read the ones that haven't been approved. Mr. KELLEHER. Page 9, line 3, Seneca. That is the first one, Mr. Chairman.

Line 4, 200 of the 275 units at White Sands.

Mr. RIVERS. Does that mean they are pending before this committee now?

Mr. KELLEHER. No. If I say approved, they have already been actually approved by this committee and the Department so advised. Mr. RIVERS All right.

Do you mean now?

Mr. KELLEHER. I am now reading the ones that are not approved. Mr. RIVERS. Does that mean they are pending before the committee? Mr. KELLEHER. Some of them are. Most of them are not.

Mr. RIVERS. I see.

Mr. KELLEHER. Line 4, again, 200 of those units are not approved, at White Sands; line 5, none of Fort Monmouth approved; line 6, only 150 of the 435 approved; line 17

Mr. SMART. 13.

Mr. KELLEHER. Yes; line 13, only 72 of the 130 are approved. That is line 13, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Fort Totten.

Mr. KELLEHER. Line 17, Fort Rucker, none approved; line 18, none at Fort Carson; line 19, none at Fort Stewart; line 22, none at Sam Houston.

Mr. KILDAY. Mr. Chairman, what is proposed to do now? To include in the bill those which are not

The CHAIRMAN. That is right. The law requires it by line item. These are the line items, for these Capehart houses.

Mr. KELLEHER. These are all Capehart

The CHAIRMAN. These are Capehart houses. As a matter of fact, at a great many places they are going to take Wherry houses. Mr. KELLEHER. Indeed.

The CHAIRMAN. Exactly.

Mr. KILDAY. What I am getting at is are we going to have justification for the line items?

Mr. SMART. Right now.

Mr. KILDAY. I would like to see the justification for Fort Sam Houston.

The CHAIRMAN. Fort Sill.

Mr. KELLEHER. At Fort Sill, none of them approved, Mr. Chairman. Page 10. Line 1, Fort Leonard Wood, none approved; line 2, Fort Leavenworth, none approved; line 6, only 375 of the 1,231 units are approved; line 7, only 60 of the 160 at the disciplinary barracks are approved; line 9, Military Academy, none approved; line 11, Fort Eustis, none approved.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, are you in position this morning to justify all these Wherry houses?

General SHULER. I have Colonel Symbol here, sir, Chief of the Family Housing Division, and he is in position

The CHAIRMAN. Of course, I think we were proceeding on a more thorough line of obtaining information by the other system. Mr. RIVERS. So do I.

The CHAIRMAN. Nevertheless, the Senate insisted that it be a line item. We went along with them. This is what it is brought to. So all we need to do here

Off the record.

(Further statement off the record.)

The CHAIRMAN. So unless some member is going to insist on knocking out some of these items, there is not but one sensible thing in the world to do and that is just to approve them.

Mr. BRAY. There are some that I have strong doubts about.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Mr. Kilday raised the Fort Sam Houston. Are you objecting or are you approving it?

Mr. KILDAY. I want to see if there is a justification.

The CHAIRMAN. Let's see what the justification is for the 183 units at Fort Sam Houston.

Private enterprise is very much worried in a great many of these installations.

Colonel SYMBOL. Mr. Chairman, I am Colonel Symbol, Chief of the Family Housing Division.

At Fort Sam Houston we are requesting approval of 183 units of title VIII Capehart housing.

At this station we have a requirement of a total of 4,372 housing units, which include 871 for the lower 3 grades, which we know are not authorized housing. However, the commanding general of the post does have a problem with these lower grades, and they do have to have a place to live-normally off the community, in the community sup

port.

We have a total of 2,865 sets at Fort Sam Houston.

The CHAIRMAN. How many civilian accommodations are available? Colonel SYMBOL. Sir, there are 1,527.

The CHAIRMAN. 1,527.

How many Army?

Colonel SYMBOL. These are all Army figures, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I understand.

In addition to the civilians, what has the Army there to accommodate them?

Colonel SYMBOL. Sir, we have 439 public quarters. We have 840Wherrys, which we will have to purchase.

We have no Capehart as yet.

We are asking approval of 183 today. Then as I mentioned earlier there are 1,527 community-support.

Sir, one other point

The CHAIRMAN. What is your total requirement, 4,000 you say? Colonel SYMBOL. It is 3,501, that are authorized housing.

Sir, I would like to make one additional point.

We have 216 units of substandard housing on the base, and these 183 are to replace those. Because we have 2 years to replace these, we have placed them on a rental basis.

The CHAIRMAN. Any complaint from the local community in reference to construction of these Capehart houses?

Colonel SYMBOL. Sir, we have had none that has come to our attention.

The CHAIRMAN. You haven't had any information from any local builders that they could take care of the situation?

Mr. KILDAY. Í am afraid they contacted me instead of the Department, Mr. Chairman.

Colonel SYMBOL. We have had no correspondence at all, sir, from the community.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Kilday, any questions?

Mr. KILDAY. I would like to have this held in abeyance.

The CHAIRMAN. All right, pass this over.

Colonel SYMBOL. Mr. Chairman

The CHAIRMAN. Now

Mr. RIVERS. Mr. Chairman, I want to make an inquiry of Colonel Symbol.

At the Charleston Transportation Depot, sometime in the past you tried to build 20 units, or twenty-odd units.

Colonel SYMBOL. Yes, sir.

Mr. RIVERS. What has become of that project?

Colonel SYMBOL. Sir, we advertised those. We just could not get a successful bid. The package apparently was too small.