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existing national resources would prove inadequate and new ones must be developed. This was NASA's job, and we have carried it out in a manner to afford an opportunity for the most able minds in our universities to design and send into space experiments which would reveal new data beyond any which could be produced in earthbound laboratories.

It was also recognized that research in space would differ significantly from most scientific research conducted previously under a laboratory system within which single elements were isolated and measured individually. Space research offered many opportunities for a multidisciplinary approach to problems of both measurement and interpretation of scientific data. Complex multipurpose spacecraft made possible the measurement of a number of elements of the environment more or less simultaneously and the evolution of interpretive systems through which the data gathered could then be related.

In the conduct of its mission NASA has sought to spread the problems of understanding the space environment over a large number of able minds in universities throughout the Nation and then to utilize the knowledge gained to enable the engineers to design more efficient instruments and spacecraft capable of coping with the environment in the performance of future work. This approach has not only maximized the understanding of, and solution of, problems relating to the environment, but also the work is carried out in close association with graduate and postgraduate education. This Nation has benefited therefore, from the critical thought and analysis of brilliant students as well as professors. At the same time the students have received training in very advanced areas of research under conditions which serve to enhance their potential for contributing to the research efforts required by the Nation in the years ahead.


In carrying out these efforts NASA had the benefit of a unique opportunity because, unlike much of the work carried out by the Atomic Energy Commission and the Department of Defense in the past, most of the effort in science, and much of the technology is unclassified. It is thus available for broad participation throughout the many disciplines of the scientific and engineering community. This approach has enabled us to emphasize the necessity for brilliant minds in the physical sciences to gain perspectives and specialized assistance through working with colleagues in related disciplines, in multidisciplinary teams, and has permitted a closer relationship between science and engineering through which new knowledge can be rapidly applied to engineering problems.

Finally, this multidisciplinary approach goes even one step beyond this because the life sciences are being joined with the physical sciences to develop within the university greater strength for effective research and its use in the solution of both space and other related national problems.


In an age when the present and future potential of scientific research is a major force in economic growth, the national resource which is being developed within the Nation's universities in the conduct of the NASA program is a most valuable asset.

If effectively joined with American industry, both, as national resources, will have increased value. It is an important fact that NASA, in fiscal year 1964, will pay industry about $2 billion to design, fabricate, and launch space systems based on the most advanced scientific relied on to work efficiently and bring back the scientific and technical data needed, an additional amount almost equal to the first $2 billion will be paid to industry to devise and conduct vigorous testing procedures to make sure these systems will work reliably. The interrelation of the best efforts of industry and the best minds in our universities in the system now being utilized by NASA to accomplish this will add a vast increase to the Nation's technical balance of power and its insurance against industrial obsolescence or surprise developments prejudicial to our national security.

Mr. Cliairman, we do have some data with respect to personnel requirements which were requested yesterday, but you might wish this after you have had your questions on Dr. Newell's statement, so as not to mix the two matters. But we are here to proceed in any way the committee desires.

Senator SMITH. Mr. Chairman


The CHAIRMAN. Senator Smith, before we go on to hearing Dr. Smull, I have one question, Mr. Webb, that I had in mind asking you yesterday. I think it is even more important to be asked today.

My question concerns the resolution pending before the United Nations General Assembly concerning outer space legal principles. As you know, for some time I have been interested in the international aspects of our space program. I have studied the text of the draft resolution, which I understand has not been made available except for limited official use. I consider this resolution a most important and far-reaching proposal and one which this committee and NASA will have a direct interest in.

I would ask, Mr. Webb, that you submit to this committee a statement of NASA's analysis of the resolution and NASA's views on what effect it will have on our national space program in the event the resolution is adopted.

By the way, the text of the resolution, I understand from this morning's paper, has been released to the press. Do you have any comment you wish to make now and then submit a statement later?

Mr. WEBB. Thank you, Senator.


We do know, in NASA, in the State Department and in other parts of the Government, of your very great interest in this and the closeness with which you have followed this and your own personal participation in some of these United Nations discussions. We do have here in the room John Johnson, our General Counsel, who was NASA's representative at the United Nations if you desire some statement this morning.


I would say as a general statement that the United States has been proceeding for a substantial period not only to insure its military power and to effectively build a base of science and technology which together with the forward thrust of our economic and social and educational system, could enable us to meet any further problems that this Nation faces, but we have at the same time been seeking quite specific arrangements with other nations.

In connection with the U.S. proposal made in 1959 to fly on American rockets the experiments designed and paid for by other governments and scientists in other nations, a system of cooperation with those desiring to cooperate in this procedure has been worked out and many nations are participating. Some of the results may be seen in the Canadian satellite, Alouette, the British satellite, Ariel, the cooperative arrangements with the Italians which will shortly give us an equatorial satellite, launched with an American rocket by an Italian team off the east coast of Africa from a towable platform which can be placed on the Equator.


But beyond this growing participation among the nations which are not behind the Iron Curtain, the President, the Secretary of State, many officials of this Government, have sought quite specific arrangements with the Russians, who have also very great rocket power and the capability to develop either military systems or cooperative systems in the communications or weather fields. It has been the policy, as you know, culminating in the agreement to terminate the testing of nuclear weapons in outer space and in the earth's atmosphere, a period lasting more than a year in which this has been a consistent policy and this agreement was concluded and it was ratified by the Senate.

The next day, Mr. Gromyko made a statement in the United Nations saying that Russia was now prepared to agree on the policy which we have also been enunciating for almost a year in this country, that no large nuclear weapons would be placed in orbit around the earth. The following day the President appeared before the United Nations and expressed his interest in Mr. Gromyko's statement, stated that we were prepared to agree to this, and then went on to say we should seek further methods of cooperation, including those in space and including efforts to explore the possibility of joint operations, even joint operations in a lunar landing. He coupled this with a number of other factors related to relationships with the U.S.S.R., such as further curbs on nuclear warfare, prevention of surprise attack, exchange of persons and information, and so forth.

Now, I think this resolution which has now been agreed to in the United Nations is a further extension of the efforts we are making to discuss with the Russians and with other nations the possibilities of cooperation in the use of science and technology, rather than having the only thrust of these major new developments in the direction of weapons systems. I think that is the major significance of it. It is more a declaration of intention than it is a resolution with teeth.

Senator SMITH. We are bound to it, are we not?

Mr. WEBB. Yes; we will vote for it. I believe we will state we intend to abide by it.


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Senator SMITH. Mr. Chairman, you will recall that we have discussed in the past the international agreements that NASA has entered into. As a result of our discussion, NASA has submitted to our committee all such agreements with a status report on each. I would like to broaden the file to include those United Nations agreements which affect NASA's programs with an analysis from NASA in each instance as to the effect on our national space program.

Mr. WEBB. We would be happy to furnish this. (The information referred to begins on p. 117.)

Mr. WEBB. Senator Smith, when you use the word "agreements, though, I think we must be clear. When I say we will abide by the terms of the resolution, it is, as I understand it, a matter of intention. It is not an agreement. It is a resolution, which is in essence a declaration of intention.

Senator SMITH. That is not the matter that is referred to in the paper this morning as the treaties being contemplated ?

Mr. WEBB. Frankly, I have not had an opportunity to see what the papers have said this morning. We will cover that in our statement.

If you wish more, Mr. Johnson is here.

Senator SMITH. No; I think it would be better-it is a rather involved subject and I think the record should have a complete statement which would be more comprehensive.

Mr. WEBB. Excuse me just one moment.

Senator Smith, I would like to add one thought which Mr. Johnson has mentioned to me. I believe that this Government has issued or will issue shortly some interpretive material. I think, in addition to what I have said, to be sure that this matter is kept in this proper perspective until we furnish information to the committee, I should point out that we do in this Government regard this as the latest and best clarification of existing international law in this field.


Senator SMITH. Well, I would suggest that you look over the transcript when you get it and make your statement accordingly.

Mr. Webb, the Congress is currently considering H.R. 6143, an act providing Federal assistance for the construction of college academic facilities. I would be interested, and I am sure the committee would, in having your views as to what, if any, impact this new law may have in assisting the objectives of NASA's facility, training and research grants program.

You may supply this for the record if you prefer to, rather than going into detail

on it in the interest of time. Mr. WEBB. I would prefer to give you a statement since this law is in the process of consideration. I would like to say this much today, Senator Smith: We, in preparing and carrying out our program, have looked at each case to develop the power of the university to serve the Nation's needs, and we have related our actions to the development of this power. Now, if the new act provides additional resources at universities, we will in no way duplicate those resources and we will rely on any other agencies of Government or governmental programs to develop the base. We will only add to the base where it is necessary to accomplish our purposes in line with Dr. Newell's statement.

(The statement referred to is as follows:) The higher educational facilities bill, if enacted, would provide $25 million for fiscal year 1964 and $60 million for each of the 2 successive years for the construction of graduate facilities. While this bill is not limited to scientific, engineering, and mathematics facilities, it is probable that at least some of the facilities constructed under this legislation would be in these categories and provide direct or indirect support to research in space sciences and technology if such research were going on at the university involved. However, NASA cannot afford to rely on such a generalized program. The NASA facilities program was initiated to support ongoing NASA research which we fear might deteriorate if the university research facilities involved were not made available.

The Office of Science and Technology states that in the fiscal years 1964 and 1965, all of the money spent in Federal programs, including the non-Federal matching funds, will not come close to meeting the President's Science Advisory Committee program target of $250 million in the fields of grants for educational facilities in engineering, mathematics, and the physical sciences.

We will, of course, take every step to see to it that there is no duplication. Dr. Smull will meet with Mr. Peter Muirhead of the Department of Education to exchange information. The proposed legislation would establish an Advisory Committee, and we are told it might be possible for NASA to have a representative on this Committee.


Senator SMITH. How does NASA fit its plans into the general picture of Federal grants? How do you coordinate your programs with programs of other Federal agencies?

Mr. WEBB. First of all, I do serve as a member of the Federal Council for Science and Technology, which Dr. Wiesner described yesterday. These matters are discussed there.

Second, we do discuss with the Bureau of the Budget, in connection with each budget submission, the relationship of our programs to others; and the Bureau of the Budget does give attention to this in connection with each budgetary preparation.

Third, we have a quite vigorous effort among the operating agencies to meet frequently at all levels and discuss the operating problems independent of the coordination problems, and to coordinate agency-to-agency where we can, instead of involving the whole governmental process of coordination. We do this on operating problems with the AEC, with the Department of Defense, and we coordinate through the Federal Council. We also do something of this kind in connection with education and our relationships to the educational institutions.

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