has put another column giving the date of authority of sale. Are there any sales on that list to Remington & Sons subsequent to the 13th of October, 1870 ?-A. I see a sale there October the 12th and 13th. Q. Where were these sales in fact effected, here or in New York?— A. They were effected in the Ordnance Office in Washington. Q. One on the 12th and one on the 13th ?-A. It appears so. By the CHAIRMAN: Q. Were those sales effected before or after knowledge of the Squire telegram?-A. That on the 12th must, from its date, have been before. I have not personal recollection of it. That on the 13th was the same day that I showed Squire's dispatch to the Secretary of War. I am satisfied that the Secretary ordered the sale of the 13th before he saw the Squire dispatch, because I recollect seeing the Secretary for the first time after he came back from the post-office, where he was when I sent him the dispatch; and I went over to see him; and I took no papers to him then, so that I am satisfied that he must have ordered the sale before. By Mr. CARPENTER : Q. As I understand you, after you first saw that telegram you refused to proceed any further with the sale of arms until you had the instructions of the Secretary of War?-A. I did. Q. That you saw the Secretary of War and he instructed you to sell no more to Remington & Sons ?—A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you after that sell any to Remington & Sons ?-A. Not that I can recollect of. Q. Would you not recollect it if you had?-A. I think I should. I have no recollection of it. By Mr. STEVENSON. Q. What time in the day did you see that dispatch ?-A. I saw that dispatch near about noon. I think it was just a few minutes before I was going to open the bids. Q. Had the sale which is reported to have been made on that day been made before you saw that dispatch ?—A. I presume it had been. By Mr. SCHURZ: Q. Are you sure?-A. I do not recollect having seen any more of it after. Q. What is the formality of the conclusion of a sale of that kind; is it the paying over of the money?—A. No; I consider that when I am authorized to sell to a particular man, that concludes the sale-though he does not get the property till afterward. By the CHAIRMAN: Q. He agrees to take the goods at a certain price, and you promise that he shall have them at that price?-A. Yes, sir; I then write to the officer in New York, if the arms are there, or the sale passes through him, and tell him these arms have been sold to this man. By Mr. CARPENTER: Q. Turning to that list, to the entry of the sale of the 13th of October, does that mean that the contract was closed on the 13th of October, or does it mean that on the 13th of October the trade was consummated by delivery and payment?-A. Not by delivery and payment; it is merely that I had concluded the contract with him. By Mr. SCHURZ: Q. Delivery and payment took place afterward, then ?-A. Payment would take place afterward; after they were delivered. Q. Do you know when these arms were delivered?—A. I do not. By Mr. STEVENSON: Q. Will your books show ?-A. The books will show. By Mr. SCHURZ: Q. As I understand, it turned out, according to Remington's own admission, or the admission of his agent, that Remington was a French agent. That same day a contract was agreed upon for the sale of a certain lot of arms, and the arms were afterwards delivered. The rule was laid down that no arms should be sold to the agent of a belligerent party. Did it not occur to you that in order to observe that rule those arms ought not to have been delivered?-A. It did not; I considered that the sale had been concluded. Q. Was any attempt made to undo that agreement or contract in any way?—A. I have no recollection of it, and do not believe there was. By Mr. CARPENTER: Q. Have you any means of ascertaining whether that contract was concluded on the 13th of October, before or after you saw that dispatch ?—A. I presume that the contract was concluded before I saw the dispatch, and before the Secretary of War gave any instructions. Considering the conclusion of the contract to be the agreement on the part of the United States to give Remington the arms, the arms could not have been delivered until subsequently; they were in New York, and he had to receive them there. By Mr. SCHURZ: Q. The arms were delivered by order of the Ordnance Bureau ?—A. By order of the Ordnance Bureau. Q. Subsequently?-A. The arms were delivered subsequently. By Mr. STEVENSON : Q. With whom did you contract, and where, on that 13th day of October, for these arms? Who was the person here representing Remington & Sons ?-A. Squire was here on that day, and I presume it was with him. Q. Where was the contract made?-A. In the Ordnance Office, and it was made in this way: I wrote the order and sent it to the officer in New York to deliver those arms. By Mr. AMES: Q. Notifying Mr. Squire of that fact at the time?-A. Yes, sir; Mr. Squire was notified of it at that time. By Mr. SCHURZ: Q. Was he notified of it here on the spot ?-A. He was here on that day and was notified. Then my order went to New York. Q. Do you remember what time of the day he was notified?—A. I do not. By Mr. SAWYER: Q. After seeing that telegram, would you have made the sale to Squire-A. No; I would not. By Mr. CARPENTER : Q. After you saw the Squire telegram did you contract to sell any arms whatever to Remington & Sons on that day?—A. I have no recollection of ever having done any such thing. Q. Would you not, under the circumstances, after you saw that telegram, if you had done it, have recollected it ?-A. I should think so. I do not believe I did. By the CHAIRMAN: Q. It would have been in direct violation of the instructions given by the Secretary, would it not?-A. It would have been. By Mr. AMES: Q. Did you see Mr. Squire between the time you received that telegram and the time when you saw the Secretary of War?-A. Mr. Squire was in my office and handed me the telegram, and he remained in the office some time, and I am inclined to think Mr. Squire was in my office after I came back from seeing the Secretary of War. By Mr. CARPENTER: Q. Did you at that time inform him of the direction of the Secretary of War ?—A. I did, when I returned to my office. By Mr. SCHURZ: Q. Did any transactions take place between you and Mr. Squire after he had shown you that telegram?—A. None whatever, I think. By Mr. LOGAN: Q. These arms, I understand you, were in New York at the time you made this contract of sale?—A. Yes, sir. Q. You had to give directions by order from your office, as I understand, to the officer in charge at New York to deliver the arms?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Was that order for the delivery of the arms given after you had seen this telegram?-A. I cannot say positively; but I say that I believe the order went from my office before I saw the telegram, and certainly before I received the instructions. Q. In what manner did you send the order, by telegraph or by communication in writing?-A. My clerk says it was by letter. I have no recollection of it myself. By the CHAIRMAN: Q. If by letter, you would have a copy of that letter?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Which can be furnished?-A. Yes, sir. By Mr. LOGAN: Q. After you had given that direction by letter to New York did you take any steps to prevent the delivery of those arms?-A. I am sure I did not. Q. Was the money paid to you for the arms?-A. No money was paid to me at all. Q. Where was the money paid?-A. The money was paid in New York and to Major Crispin. By Mr. SCпURZ: Q. Do you recollect when the arms were delivered?—A. I do not. By Mr. CARPENTER : Q. Your books will show that?-A. Yes, sir. By Mr. AMES: Q. Did you give a copy of that letter to Squire that same morning, .or notify him of the closing of the contract?-A. I notified him. I do not know that I gave him a copy of the letter, Q. You notified him at that time?-A. At that time, and Major Crispin was advised that the sale had been made. By Mr. HARLAN: Q. Was any part of the purchase-price advanced before the sale was consummated?-A. It was a rule at that time in making sales to require a margin of 20 per cent. to be put up at once. It would take a little while to deliver goods, sometimes one, two, three, or four days, or a week or ten days. I required, immediately upon the conclusion of the sale, that 20 per cent. of the purchase-money should be put up. By Mr. SCHURZ: Q. Did Squire pay you that money that same morning?-A. He paid me no money. He paid it to Major Crispin. Q. Subsequently 2-A. Yes. When I notified him that the sale was made to Squire at this price, he then immediately put up the margin. By the CHAIRMAN: Q. The money was not paid to you in any case, but paid to the officer who delivered the arms in all cases?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Did the purchasers understand, or not, that there was to be 20 per cent. paid?—Ã. They understood that there must be 20 per cent. paid. Q. Do you recollect that the Secretary of War ordered the sales to be stopped in January, and again resumed in April, 1871?—A. I recollect that some time about January the sales were stopped; and they were resumed subsequently, I think in April. Q. Between those two periods of time you will find on this schedule that there were some slight sales. Can you explain how those sales came to be made?-A. I think I can. They were made with the sanction of the Secretary of War in all cases. They were articles of minor importance, such materials as would not be apt to go out of the country and fall into the hands of either of the belligerents. By Mr. SCHURZ: Q. In February there were sold to Austin Baldwin & Co. 180 tenpounder Parrott guns; and in March, to C. K. Garrison, 120 tenpounder Parrott guns, and 120 ten-pounder carriages and limbers, cleaned and repaired, and 120 ten-pounder caissons and limbers, and all the appurtenances. Do you remember those sales?-A. I recollect those sales being made, and I think they were both made before the President revoked the order. They were made by authority of the Secretary of War at that time. By Mr. CARPENTER: Q. Was that sale stopped by order of the President?-A. All sales were stopped. By Mr. AMES: Q. You mean that these sales were made during the period between the order stopping the sales and the revocation of that order?-A. Yes, sir. By Mr. CARPENTER: Q. What was the date of the order of the President stopping the sales?-A. The order prohibiting the sales was 23d of January, 1871: "The President directs the sales of ordnance and ordnance stores to be discontinued." That was on the 23d of January, and the order revoking that order was made on the 24th of April, 1871. By the CHAIRMAN: Q. What were the reasons for the sale of those Parrott guns? Explain why during that period of time those sales were made.-A. The sale to Austin Baldwin & Co. appears to have been made on the Sth of December, before the order. Q. Then whatever sales took place during that period of time, can you furnish to the committee the reason why they took place?-A. The small sales which are reported to have taken place during that period when sales were suspended, were because the articles were small in quantity and were not such as would be likely to fall into the hands of the belligerents. For that reason the Secretary authorized those sales. By Mr. SCHURZ: Q. When were the sales of Garrison guns concluded?-A. The sale to Garrison was made on the 18th of January, before the order stopping the sales. Q. The left-hand margin in the report reads "date of sale." What does that mean?—A. I shall have to refer you to the chief clerk who made out the paper for the answer to that. Q. Take the Austin Baldwin & Co. sale of Parrott guns and the Garrison sale of Parrott guns, the one put down in January and the other in March.-A. Opposite the sale in March the date of authority of sale is the 18th of January. Q. Then the date of sale was not in March, but in January, according to this.-A. Yes, sir. By the CHAIRMAN: Q. Looking at that list you will find that in September fifty thousand Springfield muskets were sold to Remington for $5 a musket, and you will find at some other place a sale to the Turkish government at $7. Will you explain, or give the committee any information you can in relation to the difference of prices in these sales, and how it happened?— A. I will state to the committee that I was absent from Washington at the time the sale of the fifty thousand was made at $5, but I am very well acquainted with all the facts. Those muskets were what were called the rejects of the sale to the Turks. The Turks bought a very large number of muskets, and they inspected them, and a large quantity of arms were rejected, left upon our hands, so that they were worth less than the other arms they had purchased at $7, from the fact that they had been rejected. Q. That is, the sales to the Turks were of selected arms, and those remaining were the rejected ones?-A. Yes, sir; the Turks inspected all the arms they bought. They threw out a portion, and they were the 50,000 that were sold to Remington at $5. They were what were termed "cleaned and repaired" arms. Q. Had you any knowledge, prior to the Squire telegram, that Remington & Co were in any way the agents of the French-A. None whatever. Q. Were any sales made to any person known to be an agent of either the Germans or the French-A. Not to my knowledge. Most of these sales were made by the officer in New York. I would approve |