our bill has been assigned to our counterpart committee on the Senate side, the Labor and Public Welfare Committee. So we have two committees in the Senate, each with one of these bills. The approach of the membership on those committees will be considerably different as to their concept of the legal services program, and it is going to be interesting to see what happens. One problem that we have had with regard to this whole question that you raised about prohibiting representation of clients in criminal matters, is that we have never been able to devise a rule that will work all across the country in many jurisdictions. I think there has been, from the inception of the program, among those of us who consider ourselves friends of the program, agreement that with very limited resources we should have very limited involvement in noncivil matters. The problem is, however, that the little criminal case or quasi-criminal case is sometimes so intimately bound to a combination of problems that someone has, that it is almost destructive of the attorney-client relationship, and it is a very critical time to have the attorney say, in effect, "I have to bail out on you." It may be an automobile case where the loss of license is at stake, and here is a person participating in a training program, ostensibly. Also, we don't know what a criminal case is in all jurisdictions. Some States have a complete array of statutes covering misdemeanors of all sorts that have been ruled by their courts not to be criminal proceedings. A violation of a traffic ordinance in Denver, Colo., the Supreme Court has said, is a quasi-criminal proceeding. But then the Court went on to say therefore one is not entitled to all of the same protections that he would have as a defendant in a criminal proceeding. They have said this in other places, so we have left it in the legis lation, and let the local boards exercise their discretion. Thus far, the evidence seems to indicate that left to their own discretion, the programs have been very cautious about letting their lawyers spend too much of their time in criminal matters. Generally the people who suggest this are not suggesting it with the same thoughts you have in mind-thoughts that I think you would find unanimously on our committee. But the incident that occurred here in New Orleans and got some publicity some time back, caused a real flurry in the Congress-"If you are going to represent Black Panthers, we are going to kill the program. You are not going to represent those hippies that are blocking the streets, and you are not going to represent those demonstrators who are demonstrating for welfare rights," and so on. There are some strong demagogic-well, not persuasions—at least exercises that come to life every time this question of placing the limitation on criminal activity is brought up. So if you look at the language you might think that we are pretty sloppy draftsmen by the way the law now reads. (Whereupon, the hearing was adjourned.) HE LIBRARY OF LIBRARY OF CONG ONGRESS THE LIBRARY CONC A H RF R LIBRARY ( CONGRESS THE LIBRARY CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF RES CONGRESS THE LIBRARY Y t RAR ཊ OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY, LIBRARY OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS THE HE HF R AR OF OF CONGRESS THE R THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF CONGRES HF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY 5548 OF CONGRES CONGRESS THE LIBRARY R THE LIBRARY R CONGRES THE CONGRESS THE LIBRARY R CONGRESS THE LIBRARY R R CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS THE CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS OF CONGRESS THE THE LIBRARY HE LIBRARY R ) 4 1 AR OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY LIBRARY OF OF CONGRES GRESS THE LIBE R # OF HE A CONGRESS CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF CONGRE THE CONGRESS THE LIBRARY 4 OF CONGRESS THE LIBK OF CONG K. LIBRARY H LIBRARY THE THE R འ LIBRARY OF CONGRESS OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY R AR H THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY TH THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS LIBRAK A OF CONGRESS RF 3 ヌ A RY OF CONGRESS C T OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY NGRESS THE LIBRARY AR OF CONGRESS THE R THE OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY RESS HE OF CONGRESS CONGRESS THE LIBRARY AR TH 0 THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS G RE THE 7 H 40 OF RA THE LIBRARY SEE CONGRESS THE AR TH HE RES OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY R RAR LIBRARY OF CONGRESS RESS OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY H RF THE HE R OF CONGRESS HE THE HEL OF CONGRESS 0 OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS HF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY TH RF OF CONGRESS LIBRARY OF LIBRARY AR 0 THE THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY R RF OF CONGRESS OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY 80F LIBRARY OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS LIBRARY THE LIBRARY OF BRARY OF CONGRESS D 7 H RA OF CONGRESS THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS RF OF CONGRE HT CONGRESS THE THE LIBR RF TH Cr OF R.ARY DOBBS BROS. LIBRARY BINDING |