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* Increased from $2,500 by legislative appropriation act of June 17, 1910. I do not care to make any statement concerning the salary of the dire tor, ex ept to point out that the salary recon manded by the department_$7,500—is the same as the salary paid the director during the Twelfth Census.

I do not care to say anything more about that.

The CHAIRMAN. How about the Thirteenth Census; what was the salary of the director?

Mr. Rogers. The salary of the director at the time of the Thirteenth Census was $7,000. I will say that the census provided for in this bill will be the greatest census ever taken in this world.

The CHAIRMAX. The House recommended $7,000, did it not?

Mr. Rogers. Yes. However, the office committee recommends more than the bill passed by the House provides.

The salary of the assistant director has been reduced to $1,500 in the bill. I wish to urge that this salary be increased to $5,000, as originally recommended, as I do not believe the department will be able to get a man possessing the qualifications required for this position at a salary of $1,500. During the Thirtenth De ennial Census the bureau found it difficult to retain men at a salary of $5,000, as two different men o cupied that position within a period of three years. The salary of this position should be su: h as to attract a man possessing high qualifications, and I trust that the committee will see fit to increase the salary to $5,000.

Chief clerk: This officer received a salary of $3,000 in the Thirteenth Census, and as far back as the Twelfth Census he was paid a salary of $2,800. During the Fourteenth Census he will be the administrative officer of a force of approximately 4,000 employees in Washington and about 85,000 to 90,000 outside of Washington. In the absence of the director and assistant dire tor he will be the acting director of the bureau, so that he virtually becomes the se, ond assistant chief of the bureau. His duties will be enormously increased and he will have to work an enormous amount of overtime. I have found it difficult, even outside of the decennial census period, to retain competent men in this position, as they have been offered higher salaries elsewhere. It was necessary, in order to hold him in the service to promote the former chief clerk to the position of chief statistician, and it was also necessary to promote the man who was to succeed him to the position of chief statistician to retain his services. I re ommend, therefore, that the salary of this official be increased to $1.000 per annum during the Fourteenth Census period.

That is a period of three years, and it is only a difference in that period of three years of $3,000.

I might add in this connection that in its report submitting the bill to the House of Representatives the House Committee on the Census recommended an increase in the chief clerk's salary from $3,000 to $3,500 (p. 3, Rept. No. 581).

After I have finished the list, or the changes that I propose, I would like to discuss it with anyone who cares to do so.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you mean that that recognition should apply also to the three chief statisticians ?

Mr. ROGERS. Well, Mr. Chairman, I have a memorandum on it, if you care to hear it.

The CHAIRMAN. Certainly.

Mr. Rogers. Chief statisticians: Section 3 of the bill as originally drafted by the Census Bureau provided for a chief statistician in addition to those already provided for by the current appropriation act. It was the intention to place this additional chief statistician in charge of the editorial work of the bureau, as was done at the Thirteenth Census. The Census Bureau has now five such officials, and the additional chief statistician specified in section 3 would make a total of six. Section 5 of the original draft of the bill specified the salaries of six chief statisticians. The latter section of the bill as passed by the House, however, provides for only five chief statisticians.

In the Census Bureau's draft of the bill three chief statisticians were provided for at $4,000 each, and three at $3,600 each. The five at present are getting $3,000.

The higher-salaried positions were intended for the three chief statisticians, who will have administrative charge of the three main divisions of the decennial census, covering the subjects of population, agriculture, and manufactures.

I will stop to say here that practically the entire census referred to in this bill, which is a decennial census measure, and the divisions referred to here are population, agriculture, and manufactures. Those three men I am referring to in here as chief statisticians have the important work of directing that entire decennial census.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Each one in charge of a specific inquiry? Mr. Rogers. Yes; and each one in charge of his respective division.

These divisions must take care of the greater part of the volume of work which the decennial census brings and will comprise most of the clerical force of the bureau. For instance, during the decennial census the chief statistician for the population division will have under his jurisdiction about 1,800 employees, the chief statistician for the division of agriculture about 1,000 employees, and the chief statistician for the manufactures division about 500 employees. Each of these divisions will then be larger than many of the bureaus in the Government service, and it will be necessary to have them in charge of trained statisticians possessing strong executive and administrative ability. There has been no change in the salaries of the chief statisticians since 1900, notwithstanding the very great increases in salaries elsewhere, both inside and outside the Government service. These three chief statisticians are now receiving $3,000 a year. During the Fourteenth Census period their duties will be enormously increased They will be required to work practically day and night, and I feel that each of them should have a salary of $1,000 a year. The other three chief statisticians were provided for at $3,600. These positions require the services of trained statisticians and men whose services the bureau could not afford to lose.

The CHAIRMAN. The House cut this down to $3,000 each? Mr. ROGERS. $3,000 each; just what they are now. Senator SUTHERLAND. It is not enough. Mr. Rogers. In the report accompanying the bill reported to the House by the chairman of the Census Committee a salary of $3,500 each was provided.

Senator King. Do you keep a force of men there in your department all the time; I mean by that, not only the period of time of taking a census, but during the six or seven or eight or nine intervening years?

Mr. ROGERS. Well, Senator, there is a force continuously in the census; that is, a minimum force; in other words, it is a statutory force provided for in the census of 609 people. That force is practically on duty all the time. Their duties are to do the current statistical work of the bureau. Those duties are so varied that it would make a volume if I were to detail them.

Senator SUTHERLAND. And every Congress imposes new duties, I suppose ?

Mr. ROGERS. Yes; every Congress imposes new duties, and since this war the war boards and commissions have called upon us for data that is material and absolutely essential and without which the boards would be left in the dark as to how to get together any kind of conclusions.

Senator SUTHERLAND. And there would be an immense loss of money, I take it, if you had to reorganize the bureau.

Mr. ROGERS. I think that it would be an extravagant waste of money, or useless waste of money and time, to attempt an organization one at a time as the occasions arose.

Senator SUTHERLAND. And you could not get the men, could you?

Mr. Rogers. You could have no organization. It would be duplicating the work

Senator King. That is what I had in mind—whether or not, after a census was completed, if there was sufficient work to maintain an organization, at least, and to keep it busy until the next census period.

Mr. ROGERS. Yes, sir; there is. Senator SUTHERLAND. And that is what you attempt to do? Mr. ROGERS. Yes, sir. Senator New. How many, did you say? Mr. Rogers. The statutory number to-day is 609. Those employees--if you will excuse me, leaving the subject of this bill for the time being, in order to answer your question-are engaged today in conducting an investigation of the electrical industries in the country. That means the telephones, telegraph, power plants, electrical railways, and lighting, and all of those things associated with the electrical industries, the importance of which, I might say, all of us understand. I was called on by a department of the Government the other day, which is taking over the telephones, to furnish some information so that it inày know something of the telephone systems of the country. We had the figures-that is, the number of telephones and the telephone systems—to give, and it was worth all that the force cost in having that data ready at once. In addition to that, Senator, so far as this force that I speak of is concerned, it is engaged on vital statistics work all over this country. We take account of the births and the deaths in the registration area of the United States. We have another division engaged on the statistics of cities and States, which relate to appropriations, taxations, internal improvements, and so on.

Senator King. Much of that information is available for use in your census report, and is placed in that report, is it not?

Mr. ROGERS. Yes; it is an annual report, that has no connection with the decennial census. It is unfortunate that there is a belief that the Census Office only enumerates the people once in 10 years, because that is the period fixed by the Constitution for doing that work, for it is continually engaged on important work relating to the social and industrial fabric of the country, work that is never mentioned or even thought of by many.

Senator SUTHERLAND. And has not your force been called upon to do outside work in connection with the Provost Marshal General's office and other offices of that character?

Mr. Rogers. Ycs; as I have indicated, we are engaged to-day on war work, in addition to our current work, and our office has answered to the country's demands by giving 231 people, who are doing those things for the Government which are necessary to do at this time, and that is more than one-third of our statutory force. We are doing this other work outside of our current work, or work that we call extra work. This work, I will say, is being done gratis, and it is extra work outside of that provided for by law.

My chief clerk calls to my attention another inquiry of another branch of our work, which is part of our current work, and known as cotton, cotton seed and cottonseed products, and tobacco. The bureau has a Division of Cotton and Tobacco Statistics.

Senator King. With some of these departments and agencies of the Government, they resort to your bureau for the purpose of getting information, do they not?

Mr. Rogers. It might seem to be exaggerated if I were to say that practically all of that information is based on figures that have been assembled in the Census Office.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Not only the departments of the Government, but also Congress, call upon you for this information?

Mr. Rogers. Yes; also Congress, and I will say that Congress keeps me as busy as any other division of the Government. No; I won't say that, for that may not be exactly correct, but Congress calls upon us for much information for the purpose of legislation and for guidance for legislation and general information, and we are always ready and try to be prompt in furnishing that information. We have a Division of Revision and Results and Geographer's Divi.

sion.

Senator King. I will say that I introduced a resolution at the beginning of the last session calling for our exports to certain neutral countries contiguous to Germany, and there was some very full and valuable information promptly furnished. I was wondering whether that came from your department or whether your department was an auxiliary in furnishing that information.

Mr. Rogers. The export figures were no doubt furnished you by the Bureau of Foreign and Domestic Commerce of our department.

Senator ASHURST. Let me ask right there: The trained force of your bureau, which consists of six hundred and some odd employees, have their salaries provided for, do they not, in the legislative, executive, and judicial appropriation act?

Mr. ROGERS. Yes, sir.
Senator ASHURST. Like all the other expenses of the Government.
Mr. Rogers. Yes, sir.
Senator SUTHERLAND. But this is additional work-

Mr. Rogers. No; I beg your pardon, but these statisticians that I have referred to in here are the five that I have and one additional. For the decennial period, there will be no annual appropriation that you speak of, but it will be a lump-sum appropriation for the decennial period of three years. The reason that I am asking for that salary

Senator King. It is not a duplication, then. In other words, we do not provide salary here in addition to any compensation provided for under the annual appropriation ?

Mr. ROGERS. No, sir.

Senator SUTHERLAND. But this supersedes the salary provided for in the regular bill?

Mr. ROGERS. Yes, sir.

If the committee desires, I will proceed. Shall I proceed, Mr. Chairman?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; proceed.

Mr. ROGERS. For the reasons set forth above, it is recommended that section 5 of the bill as passed by the House be amended so as to provide for three chief statisticians at $4,000 per annum and three at $3,600 per annum. I do not think the Senator heard, but the House bill reported all of those three, with an accompanying report, recommending $3,500.

As the salaries of these positions have remained unchanged since the organization of the bureau, over 16 years ago, I think the increases recommended are fully justified. It might be added that in its report, submitting the bill to the House of Representatives, the House Committee on the Census recommended salaries of $3,500 per annum for three of the chief statisticians (page 3, Report No. 581).

Senator ASHURST. What line is that?
Senator New. Page 4, lines 7 and 8.
Mr. ROGERS. The bill that I referred to in the committee, is

page 3, Report No. 591.

Geographer: The duties of the geographer will be tremendously increased during the Fourteenth Census period. He will have to obtain the latest information concerning townships, towns, precincts, magisterial districts, etc. After obtaining this information he prepares maps showing the boundaries of each enumeration district. This work has to be done promptly and thoroughly if the population census is to be a success. After the population schedules are returned to the bureau it is the duty of the geographer to see that the minor civil divisions are so returned that the population of each can be shown separately. He will also have direct supervision of the preparation of all maps, charts, and illustrations used in connection

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