have either been completed or are now under construction; 3,960 units are under commitment from Federal Housing Administration and construction will be initiated in the immediate future; and 8,561 units have been submitted and are now under review by the Federal Housing Administration.

By way of comparison, the military departments prior to the initiation of this title VIII program had available about 23,000 sets of permanent-type quarters. This program will, by the end of the year, have more than doubled the available number of quarters of permanent-type construction.

In addition, 29,256 units have been programed by the three military departments and are under various stages of design preparatory to their early submission to Federal Housing Administration. These 29,000 units, already programed, together with other projects under consideration are causing the Departments considerable concern because completion of these units is dependent upon the extension of the authorities now contained in title VIII of the National Housing Act which will, unless extended, expire at the end of this week.

Another area which warrants special mention is the military department requests for overseas construction. While the Secretaries of the three military departments will provide the committee with details of this program, it should be noted that the arrangements under which this country is to assist in providing overseas bases is subject to current negotiation between this Government and the several allied governments involved.

Each of the three military departments have included requests for authority in accordance with the ground rules outlined herein, to initiate at an early date the detailed design of facilities included in this bill. The Department of Defense believes that considerable savings in construction costs can be achieved if the military departments are permitted to proceed with this phase of the work at once. Particularly, this is true of the new facilities proposed for construction in the northern parts of the United States. Failure to have complete designs available at the time the authorizing and financing bills pass may well result in the most expensive type of construction—that is, the simultaneous design and construction of urgently needed facilities. With the concurrence of the appropriate committees of the Congress funds now on hand could be utilized immediately to initiate necessary detailed design work.

In summary, the Department of Defense believes that the ground rules which were applied, together with the review processes which have been outlined herein, have resulted in an authorization bill which provides for the immediate support and effective utilization of the approved forces.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. I have some two or three questions to ask you and then we will go around the committee and let every member ask all the questions he desires.

On page 8 you say

with the concurrence of the appropriate committees of the Congress funds now on hand could be utilized immediately to initiate necessary detailed design work.

That means that you have on hand some money out of the 1951 Public Works bill that you desire to use for your engineering and architectural plans to carry out provisions of this proposed bill?

Secretary LOVETT. That is correct, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Can you advise the committee the amount of money that is on hand that could be used for that purpose which was not obligated, which has been appropriated in the 1951 budget?

Secretary LOVETT. I don't have it immediately in mind, Mr. Chairman, but we will provide that information for the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I think you are on sound ground to make that request, but I think the committee should be advised as to how much money was left over from the 1951 budget that can be used for the engineering and architectural work in this bill.

Now, Mr. Secretary, another question. See that someone gives the committee that information, please.

Secretary LOVETT. Yes, sir, I will.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. Now the question I want to ask is this: Assume that the committee and the Congress authorizes the 61⁄2 billion dollar bill-the President has already earmarked $4,600,000,000 in his budget-if world conditions remain practically what they are now, and if we don't get in an all-out war, is it your intention to come back before the committee and ask for supplementary appropriations for your $6 billion authorization bill set out here?

Secretary LOVETT. Well, Mr. Chairman, if the world situation does not change materially for the worse or better, which I understand to be your assumption, the authorization requested in the bill would give us the latitude of approximately $2 billion-needed to carry into the second phase of the armed services build-up.

I believe that there is need for some latitude expressed in the difference between the authorization request and the proposed appropriation request which is our best present estimate of the projects or portions of projects that require early financing. We can be a great deal more specific by October or November when we have had experience with the rate of build-up that has been achieved and we have obtained a clearer picture as to the necessity for additional financing through possible supplemental appropriation or whether the additional financing may be included in the fiscal year 1953 budget— which is expected to be under preparation late this fall.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, then in view of that last statement, why wouldn't it be wise for the committee only to consider and authorize that amount which is being asked for in the appropriation now, $4,600,000,000?

Secretary LOVETT. The principal reason, Mr. Chairman, is if we can get the authorization from this committee and the stated assumption is not correct, we would might need to move with great rapidity in order to further expand our facilities. If we have the authorization, we could go ahead with certain steps in planning and request the necessary appropriations more quickly.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, but at the same time, Mr. Secretary, I don't consider it sound legislation to put on the statute book large authorizations which might be asked for and might not be asked for. But we know that you need a certain amount now. Why isn't that the proper way to legislate, to give what you need now?

Secretary LOVETT. Well, Mr. Chairman, we feel that we need the amount asked for here in authorization.

The CHAIRMAN. You need $4,600,000,000. You are asking for an authorization of over $6 billion. You don't anticipate, unless we get in an all-out war, asking for a supplementary appropriation over and above the $6 billion. Now why isn't the committee sound if it only authorizes that which you are asking in appropriations? Why should we fill the books up with authorization which we may not ever ask the money for?

Secretary LOVETT. May I correct an impression there, Mr. Chairman, I may have given by inadvertence? I did not mean to say that we would only need the $6 billion plus in case of an all-out war. The CHAIRMAN. Yes, I understand.

Secretary LoVETT. I had understood the question if there was no substantial change.

The CHAIRMAN. That is right, assuming the conditions remain as they are.

Secretary LOVETT. The difference between the two amounts is basically this. We need and anticipate the need for the $6 billion plus figure in providing for the approved 3%1⁄2 million man force, but in the period of time covered by our 1952 budget we do not expect to utilize more than the $4.6 billion currently to be requested for immediate appropriation.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, all right. I am trying to make the point. and trying to get the idea over that it would be wise to confine the legislation to that for which the appropriation is asked for, and not to put on the books a large authorization program that might be called for if new conditions arose.

Now, as an evidence of new conditions arising, you are asking for the establishment of what is called railhead facilities, some seven camps, that you have no idea of using unless world conditions get worse than they are today.

Now those kind of items make up your $2 billion difference. Why shouldn't we only consider those items for which you are asking appropriations?

Secretary LOVETT. Going back to the ground rules for a moment, Mr. Chairman, the agreements between the three military departments were to restrict the immediate appropriation requests to those operational requirements on a minimum operational basis, so that we could spread the impact of the very heavy military expenditures over a period of years. In consequence, there are many bases covered in this request that would require for reasonable completeness two or three runways, or runway extensions and let us say, only one to be started immediately with the remainder to be financed later this year or to be financed in the next budget.

The CHAIRMAN. That is right.

Secretary LOVETT. Also troop housing should be authorized for a certain number of units with part to be undertaken immediately and the balance to follow as necessary.

The CHAIRMAN. One minute

Secretary LOVETT. So the minimum is to be financed immediately and not the ultimate early requirement.

The CHAIRMAN. And those such items constitute your $4,600,000,000 which you are asking the money for now? Secretary LOVETT. That is right, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That is right. Now there is no hesitancy in my mind about that way to approach it. But there is grave doubt in my mind whether we should go ahead and make authorizations beyond the $4,600,000,000, that would be required in the event we got in an all-out war or conditions grew worse. Now that is what I am trying to develop.

Secretary LOVETT. I see the point of the question, Mr. Chairman. Again, the $4.6 billion, covers only a portion of the minimum operational requirements of a large number of bases for the three military departments which are to be immediately financed.

The CHAIRMAN. All right

Secretary LOVETT. And then, at an early date we would like to go forward with the completion of those projects.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes. All right. Then the completion of it would depend upon world conditions. You would not complete them, even though they are the minimum request now and an initial starting takes place, unless world conditions justified it. Because the $4,600,000,000 is to support three and a half million military personnel in our armed services and the difference of 2 billion between the appropriation requested and the authorization is to take care of the future expansions over and above three and a half million men.

Secretary LOVETT. That is only partly true, Mr. Chairman. The $4.6 billion will provide a substantial start on providing for a 3% million force but this would not complete the work. In the differencebetween the 4.6 and the six and a half billion dollars, there is a considerable amount for the completion of bases to full operational status as compared with the minimum status, first to be accomplished, and we would like to complete the projects, ir the interest of the operational efficiency of those bases, as soon as it is appropriate to do so. In formulating this program we have tried to do the first and essential things first, leaving the secondary matters to a later time from the point of view of financing.

The CHAIRMAN. Now one more question: I think you are to be commended for having some outside engineers examine these projects. They have made a careful examination of each on of these items referred to in this bill?

Secretary LOVETT. Yes, sir. The practice has varied in the three services because of the different characteristics of the service, but in each of the military departments there was a most searching review. Then there were the committees of the civilian secretaries that were specially set up for a final rereview of the experts' reviews. Then after that, there was a final review in the nature of a justification. before the Office of the Secretary of Defense, at which point we brought in Madigan's firm. You will recall that they are the consulting engineers who did the Tri-Borough Bridge and the vast enterprise in New York, the Port of New York Authority.

It then, of course, went to Bureau of the Budget and through the normal processes to this committee.

It was a somewhat painful process because very frequently the need for the facility was apparent, but we had to determine whether it was needed at this moment or whether half of it was needed now and the other half could be deferred to another year so as to spread the load of financing over a longer period of time. We sought to apply

ordinary business principles. And these outside experts rather startled me by saying that we could save a considerable amount of money if we did design and engineering work further back in the process and that a little money spent earlier on that phase would be saved a good many times over.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, Mr. Secretary, of course the committee recognizes that you can't give close supervision of all these various items. You are satisfied with the careful screening that was given by these consultants and given by the various departments in pulling out all items that were not absolutely essential and necessary for the immediate support of the three and a half million strength?

Secretary LOVETT. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I am satisfied that the most serious efforts were made by competent people to do this job.

I can't say that every item is absolutely 100 percent, because judgment enters as to its need and as to the time of need. One principal problem is to get away from rushing into one of these projects. That causes costs to go up.

The CHAIRMAN. That is right.

Secretary LOVETT. The best example that I can think of is the one that Mr. Madigan's own group gave us. They are building the United Nations headquarters in New York. They started design on that project in 1948. The project was to be completed by 1953 at a cost of $65 million. They finished the first building this year. They had one-hundred-and-twenty-odd engineers working on it during that period of time. Now to complete the project, by 1952, a year earlier, would run the cost up to $110 million-so that pressure for time is one of the very costly items.

In the same way the time for completion of individual projects was an element where judgment had to be exercised. We tried to exercise the best judgment we could and by and large, Mr. Chairman, I think a good job has been done.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. Now could you advise the committee as to what size armed service that this authorization, called for in this bill, would it support? Now the $4,600,000,000 will take care of three and a half million armed services. Now, the $6,700,000 will support an armed service of how much strength?

Secretary LOVETT. It will support the approved three and a half million end strengths, with only a limited margin of tolerance in case further expansion of the forces should, on short notice, become

necessary.

The CHAIRMAN. Now could you give a little more positive answer to that? We know the $4,600,000,000 will take care of three and a half million service. Now how much increases in service could be supported out of the additional $2 billion? Of course, Mr. Secretary, it is large enough to take care of the four marine divisions which the committee approved yesterday.

Secretary LOVETT. If you will permit me, Mr. Chairman, I will try to get you an estimate of the limited margin of tolerance.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, you give thought to that, because as I interpret the bill, the money asked for in the appropriation now will take care of a service of three and a half million and the 6 billion amount asked for certainly should take care of a large increase in the service. Now am I right or wrong about that?