Colonel HILL. "Mobilization" type, sir. Where we are going to construct buildings in a new area, for instance where there are not existing buildings right in the area, we use this new emergency type construction. But at Camp Gordon the camp was built as an oldtime or World War II motorized infantry division camp. Therefore, it is widely dispersed, spread out, the buildings being spread out. Our intention is, since the use of the camp has changed now to largely Signal and Provost Marshal General School camp, to build the buildings in among the other buildings and therefore we want them to match the buildings that are already there, which are the mob type, mobilization type, buildings.

Mr. COLE. What is meant by "mobilization type"?

Colonel HILL. Well, sir, during World War II we had-the two general types of temporary construction were the mobilization type. building, which is the barracks, usually a two-story barracks, and then we had the theater of operation type building, which is more or less of a prefab tar paper shack sort of a thing. In this particular case it is the two-story barracks, 74-man capacity, at Gordon. It is the general common type of barracks that you see close by here, out here at Arlington cantonment and Belvoir. They are the mobilization type barracks.

Mr. COLE. The same type as the emergency type structure? Colonel HILL. The new so-designated emergency type is different. General NOLD. It was somewhat different. Generally speaking the emergency type is a single-story structure for ease of erection. The old mobilization type was the first effort in World War II and a very satisfactory type of building. It was a little more expensive, however, than we could afford later on in point of both labor and materials. So they resorted to the so-called theater of operations type, which is a very sketchy structure indeed.

Now the current emergency type is an improvement, we think, over either one for the particular purpose of the future. But as the colonel explained, where you have an existing camp and they are putting up additional buildings in an area that already has other buildings, it is advisable to put in that same type and they are a satisfactory building.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. Now we will mark down Camp Gordon

Mr. ELSTON. Just a minute, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask why the item is so large for classrooms, almost $9 million.

Čolonel HILL. Sir, that can be explained by the change in use. As I said, the camp was built as a motorized infantry division camp and now it is used as a school by the Signal Corps and the Provost Marshal General, particularly the Signal Corps very highly technical training requirements. They have moved in there and it has been necessary to actually convert these 8,000 spaces that are shown here from barracks to classrooms.

Now, we have a requirement at Gordon right now for 44,000 spaces, including those classroom spaces, and actually we only have 40,000 spaces there. In addition to that, we have recently had to move approximately 8,000 people out of Gordon, move them out to Camp Cooke and other places, when it would be more desirable to leave those people where they were because they were Signal Corps general

Reserve units and they could have been trained better at Gordon than where they are being trained now. So to meet this deficiency there it is not a mobilization deficiency, it is a present deficiencyof about 12,000 spaces, we want to construct enough classrooms to free 8,000 spaces and also to construct 4,000 new spaces.

Mr. ELSTON. What type of construction will they be?

Colonel HILL. The classroom construction will be of a type similar to the emergency type housing construction, modified. It will be a standard type classroom building.

The CHAIRMAN. It will be of wood?

Colonel HILL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The whole camp is practically built of wood?
Colonel HILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. ELSTON. They will be plastered?
Colonel HILL. No, sir.

Mr. ELSTON. They won't be plastered?
Colonel HILL. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I want to say this: I think this is one of the best camps it has been my privilege to visit. I don't know-it is not in my district or the old district I used to represent. The Department is to be commended in keeping it and using it. They found some use for it and did not give it away, because probably there was so much given away that nobody wanted it.

Mr. COLE. Mr. Chairman, let me ask a question about these railhead facilities. How long will the men be in these facilities?

Secretary BENDETSEN. During the entire emergency.

Mr. COLE. No, no. Assume we get in the emergency and you have to use them, how long will an individual be kept at that facility?

Secretary BENDETSEN. He would undergo his basic training there. He would be there for 16 weeks.

General BARRIGER. He would be there about 16 weeks, at a place like Blanding. The others are programed for division camps where they would complete their division training until they went to the theater of operations to fight.

The CHAIRMAN. That is right.

General BARRIGER. Our plan on those is to design the entire facility. And to elaborate just a little bit, we could put men in tents in these places if we do this much in from 4 to 6 weeks. The engineers can build the thing within 3 months and make a complete camp out of it. Well, I believe our experience has been

Secretary BENDETSEN. If they were all used for basic training they could, but they aren't going to be.

General BARRIGER. No. It is about a year actually, to throw a division in and train it and get ready to go to war, if you have that much time.

The CHAIRMAN. Under the law he will have to have at least 4 months basic training.

General BARRIGER. You see, Blanding is the basic training camp. There are others that are programed as division camps.

Secretary Bendetsen. I was answering your question, Mr. Cole, with respect to Blanding.

Mr. ELSTON. Mr. Chairman, if we get into UMT, and we are, are you still going to have 16 weeks of basic training at these places?

General BARRIGER. I am not familiar with the UMT training program, but I should certainly think they would have that much. Mr. COLE. Let me ask to make sure in my mind

Secretary BENDETSEN. May I make clear the answer on that? Mr. COLE. What is puzzling me, and I assume it is all right, is to determine whether or not you have overplanned your requirements for total mobilization?

General BARRIGER. No, sir. I might elaborate on that a little bit. We find from M plus 4 to M plus 6 it is going to be awful tight. This is just figuring the construction capability of the Corps of Engineers. After M plus 6 we can probably build sufficient to keep abreast of the mobilization.

The CHAIRMAN. To reestablish these railhead facilities, plus what is in this bill, is not sufficient for an all-out mobilization?

General BARRIGER. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Then, in addition to all of this program you would be asking for other camps to be resurrected and established. General BARRIGER. Yes, sir.

Secretary BENDETSEN. Substantially more, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. COLE. What do you consider all-out mobilization by way of Army manpower requirements?

The CHAIRMAN. How many men?

General BARRIGER. I am afraid I would have to procure that figure for you.

Secretary BENDETSEN. What was the question?

General BARRIGER. The peak strength at all-out mobilization.
Mr. SMART. For Army.

Secretary BENDETSEN. You are asking only with regard to our service?

Mr. COLE. That is right.

Secretary BENDETSEN. Off the record.

(Statement off the record.)

Mr. COLE. And the facilities provided in this program together with what you have will take care of how many? Half of it? Secretary BENDETSEN. This is off the record also.

(Statement off the record.)

Mr. COLE. That is not quite the same as being a proper yardstick to determine the total strength.

Secretary BENDETSEN. That is quite true, Mr. Cole.

Mr. VAN ZANDT. Let's get going.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. We will try to get a little information, on the question raised by Mr. Cole.

Secretary BENDETSEN. I will supply that for you, Mr. Cole.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Secretary BENDETSEN. I can make the computation.

The CHAIRMAN. We will strike out the $13,114,350 and put in lieu of it $5,782,600 for Camp Gordon.

Mr. SASSCER. Mr. Chairman, before you leave that I want to ask a question.

Colonel, did I understand you to say that within this facility was included an Adjutant General's school?

Colonel HILL. No, sir. Provost Marshal Provost Marshal General School and Signal School.

The CHAIRMAN. A big difference.

Mr. SASSCER. Where is the Adjutant General School, do you know? Colonel DAVIS. Fort Benjamin Harrison, Ind.

The CHAIRMAN. That is right.

Mr. SASSCER. The reason I ask: In the last war they built barracks, dining hall, classrooms, and utilized these somewhat similar houses, similar to Fort Myer, brick homes, for the officers, and the Government still owns it. I am anxious to find out why that facility was not used. The CHAIRMAN. Now Fort Jackson, South CarolinaMr. SASSCER. Would you get an answer for me?

Colonel HILL. May I-I want to be sure of your question, again, sir? Mr. SASSCER. My question, in substance, related to Fort Washington, which has large, massive commanding officers homes, like all those old forts, somewhat similar to Fort Myer. The Government spent several million dollars there to augment the officers quarters and barracks that were there to build classrooms, dining hall, modern plumbing, and kitchen equipment, and so forth, and was used as the Adjutant General's School. Now no use is being made of it.

Čolonel HILL. That is outside of our Army area of course, so I am not familiar with it.

Mr. SASSCER. I think it is important enough, Mr. Chairman, to at least explore it. It has some relevance to this whole subject matter. If we went in there and spent millions on this old fort and with all the facilities I just mentioned, and are now making no use of it at all, it would certainly have a bearing on the necessity of some of these items.

The CHAIRMAN. We will look into that and see if we can utilize that if it is in good shape.

(The information is as follows:)

Fort Washington was declared surplus on August 16, 1944. Facility consisted of 341 acres of public domain and 6 acres of leased land. On October 18, 1944, the facility was returned to the Department of the Interior for use by the National Park Service. Three acres were transferred to the Veterans' Administration on September 25, 1944.

The facility was formerly occupied by the AG School with a capacity of 2,100 students and an officer capacity of 362.

When the installation was declared surplus, the Army policy was to consolidate its activities for economy reasons, thus saving the extensive overhead involved in operating a number of small installations such as Fort Washington.

Fort Washington is not now being used for a Provost Marshall School, because the cost of rehabilitation and construction would be too great and the maintenance of a separate facility for this purpose would not be economical. At Camp Gordon economy in logistical support is obtained by having both the Signal Corps School and the Provost Marshal General School at the same location.

The CHAIRMAN. Now let's go to Fort Jackson, S. C. Now Fort Jackson is a training place for three or four divisions of National Guards as well as an induction center; is that correct, Colonel?

Colonel HILL. It has one division of National Guard, the Thirtyfirst Division. It has the Eighth Training Division. It also has a reception center of a 4,000 capacity.

The CHAIRMAN. How many men there now?
Colonel HILL. The present strength is 45,969.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, that is a permanent camp or a temporary camp?

Colonel HILL. That is a temporary camp, sir. Our objective in providing these facilities that we have here is largely to overcome

deficiencies that existed in the Thirty-first Division area. The Thirtyfirst Division came into the tent-camp area. All the people live in tents. But because of the great changes in the division since World War II, we found ourselves very short on shops and warehouses particularly. Also, inasmuch as the training division conducts a specialist training school in one of their regiments, we were completely lacking in classroom facilities. So these things at Fort Jackson are to fill up gaps, to provide for existing deficiencies in our plant.

The CHAIRMAN. Now Fort Jackson was established during World War II and has been practically in various stages of use since then. Mr. COLE. World War I.

Mr. PRICE. World War I.

The CHAIRMAN. World War I, that is right. It was used considerably by the National Guard units for World War I and World War II and is being used now for the training of National Guard divisions. I was down there not long ago. I want you to make a note, Mr. Smart, when the Surgeon General comes on in regard to his hospitals. Now I appointed a subcommittee to go down to look over complaints that were coming from Camp Jackson. They made their report. There can be no doubt that the hospital facilities have not been adequately provided for. The whole camp is temporary construction-tents, with cement floors and wooden sides and the tent over on top. Now that is the only kind of structure you need down there. That meets your requirement all right. Except we need a little bit better hospital facilities. So when the Surgeon General comes up, we will ask the Surgeon General about that. I particularly went down there. I went all over the camp with General Collins. They are doing a very fine work there. Now

Mr. DEGRAFFENREID. Mr. Chairman, may I make one observation about the camp down there?

Yes, sir.

Mr. DEGRAFFENRIED. Your subcommittee was down there at the same time. I went over to the camp there and looked at it because a part of the Thirty-first Division is from my district in Alabama, a good part. I went down and looked at those tents myself and went in them. Some of those tents have holes in them. I don't know whether you have remedied it since then. I wrote the general down there and also called it to the attention of the subcommittee down there at the time. Mr. Winstead and one or two other members of the subcommittee-Mr. Johnson of California. At that time there were some holes in some of those tents where the rain was coming through when it rained. The food was excellent, but the latrine facilities were not sufficient. They took me over there and showed me the latrines. The CHAIRMAN. I trust you won't get the engineers to building elaborate latrines there such as the one up in Delaware, costing six hundred and some-odd dollars apiece. But taking it all in all, it is a good camp. It does need a little fixing up of the hospital. And no doubt some of the tents are bad. But there is absolutely no need, even if it is a permanent camp, to build big brick buildings there because you can get all the comfort from the type of tents they use, which is a very fine type in that section. It doesn't get too cold. It doesn't get too hot. It is a good place for them to sleep out in a little open air.