Mr. COLE. I should say I am not in favor of that motion. The CHAIRMAN. All in favor of the motion made by Mr. Cole hold up his hand. All opposed. (Show of hands.) The CHAIRMAN. The motion of Mr. Cole does not prevail. Now, all in favor of Mr. Van Zandt's motion that we, in this item, strike out $725,200 and substitute in lieu thereof $520,200. Mr. HEFFERNAN. Will you state what that motion means? The CHAIRMAN. It means that you get at this camp that which is in the appropriation for it now. Mr. HARDY. I haven't got a book, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. All in favor of Mr. Van Zandt's motion hold up his hand. All opposed. (Show of hands.) Mr. SMART. Six opposed. The CHAIRMAN. The motion does not carry. All in favor of approving Fort Devens as written in the bill Mr. VAN ZANDT. Just a minute. Mr. ELSTON. How many "aye" votes were there? The CHAIRMAN. There were six votes against it. All in favor of Mr. Van Zandt's motion hold up your hand. Mr. BROOKS. Restate the motion. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Van Zandt moves to strike out $725,200 and substitute $520,200, the amount appropriated now in the appropriation bill. All in favor of that motion hold up your hand. (Show of hands.) Mr. SMART. Eight. The CHAIRMAN. Eight. All opposed. (Show of hands.) Mr. SMART. Seven. The CHAIRMAN. The motion of Mr. Van Zandt Mr. PRICE. I object to that motion on the ground that there is no quorum present. Mr. JOHNSON. This does not set the pattern for everything; does it, Mr. Chairman? Mr. PRICE. I will withdraw the motion. The CHAIRMAN. One minute. On the motion of Mr. Van Zandt, the "aves" are eight and the "noes" are seven. And the bill is so amended. Read your next item. Mr. PHILBIN. I object to that motion. Mr. GAVIN. I think we are proceeding in a manner that may cause difficulty. Supposing that there are important projects in here that should be considered, and will not be considered because we may reach the amount that you are establishing before we complete all of the projects, why wouldn't it be better for the Department of the Army to screen the whole picture and bring in the most important ones that they want action on in the immediate future rather than pass on a project that may not be called up for 2 years. The CHAIRMAN. That is what they have done. We will read each one of these items in every one of these bills. It will be subject to the same motion that Mr. Van Zandt made. Then the committee can vote on each project as it comes along and determine whether or not we establish a whole pattern, approve the whole program and the whole authorization, or will only approve that which they are asking for in the appropriation bill. Mr. BROOKS. Mr. Chairman, I make this suggestion that in going over these projects that we be given the whole long-range planning picture. For instance, I understood that the original estimate of public works-in fact, that was some of the testimony this morningran double this amount that we have before us. Secretary BENDETSEN. Five billion for the Army until the panel screened it. Mr. BROOKS. It is obvious that the Army has long-range programs. Regardless of this particular bill, the Army has long-range programs, and I think the committee ought to have an idea of the long-range program and then go ahead and authorize the money that is needed to do the job immediately. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Brooks, they will have programs, long-range programs, and short-range programs, constantly before the committee all the time; the change of the world, the change of the Army requirements. They are submitting a program now showing that for the next year or two they want an authorization of $7,000,000. Mr. BROOKS. May I suggest this, Mr. Chairman: What they have done here is neither given us a long-range program nor the short-range program. They have compromised on both. If they had given us a long-range program, it would have been $5,000,000,000. If they had given us only the money we needed immediately, we would have much less than that-only $4,000,000,000. In the whole series of bills, they have overstepped on the short-range and compromised on the long-range. Therefore, what I think we ought to have is a longrange program briefly given. The CHAIRMAN. I am sorry they haven't got it. Mr. GAVIN. Are these projects being presented to us in their importance as set up in your over-all program in priority? Secretary BENDETSEN. Yes. Before beginning our detailed presentation, I want to emphasize that the authorization requested in H. R. 4524 does not represent the Department's long-range construction requirements. The authorizations requested are for minimum essential construction needed now. The Department of the Army has unscreened requirements which almost quadruple the bill as submitted. The leaders from industrial and professional fields who reviewed this program recommended that the Department of the Army ask for an authorization now of not less than 3.7 billion dollars. Mr. GAVIN. The ones that are first are presented first. Secretary BENDETSEN. No; not in the book. We start with the First Army Area, and so forth. The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead with the next one. Mr. JOHNSON. Is there any priority in your mind as to your project? Secretary BENDETSEN. They are concurrent priority. Mr. JOHNSON. All of them? Secretary BENDETSEN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Everything will be started as soon as Congress makes the money available. Take Camp Dix, page 14. Their plan calls for an expenditure of $43,287,709, and they are asking to be appropriated now $29,951,630. Barracks, 225 men; their plan calls for $14,580,000. They are asking for appropriation for $14,580,000. Mr. ELSTON. May I ask a question, Mr. Chairman? The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Elston. Mr. ELSTON. Do I understand these barracks will hold 225 men? Colonel INGRAM. Each. Mr. ELSTON. It is 27 times 225. Secretary BENDETSEN. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Are any of the plans ready for any of the items set out at Camp Dix? Colonel INGRAM. The plans are in the process of being drawn and worked up by the district engineers. The CHAIRMAN. It will be approximately a year before this item. can be constructed? General NOLD. That is approximately right, Mr. Chairman. A certain proportion of these items, Mr. Chairman, are what we call repetitive items. We have standard drawings for them. We have those ready now. They have to be fitted to the ground. So, we should have the actual design of this camp well along by the time the funds become available. The CHAIRMAN. Let's see Mr. JOHNSON. May I ask a question of the general? I notice when you divide 27 into the figure you want you get $540,000. That is your estimate of what each of those barracks will cost. General NOLD. That is about right, sir. We have unit figures which were used to arrive at this total. Those figures are pretty well supported by our current bidding prices. The CHAIRMAN. Now the only items in the plan for the development of Camp Dix that appropriation is not, either in whole or in part, being made for are: barracks for 165 men; for regimental dispensary, 2; a regimental chapel, seating 300; and, for combination shop and highway training facility, and so forth. The whole plan at Camp Dix is getting underway in an orderly manner by an expansion of $29,951,630. Isn't that correct, Colonel? Colonel INGRAM. That is correct, sir. The CHAIRMAN. It will take you a year before you can begin to complete those plans? Colonel INGRAM. Not the plans; no, sir. Secretary BENDETSEN. The buildings. Colonel INGRAM. Yes. Mr. PHILBIN. When will the plans be ready? General NOLD. They should be ready by early fall. Mr. PHILBIN. At the time the funds are available? General NOLD. Yes. Mr. PHILBIN. So, the construction could proceed at that time? General NOLD. Yes, sir. Mr. PRICE. Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Price.. Mr. PRICE. There is an item in this Fort Dix that points out a little fallacy in the vote we had a minute ago. I think at least you should allow a little leeway in this authorization. For instance, in this item of Fort Dix, you have an item for a regimental chapel, $150,000. Nothing has been asked for this year. What if between now and the time the money is appropriated there should be a desire to go ahead and build that chapel. There would be no leeway to do it. I have talked to the Chief of Chaplains of the Air Force. I know how hard up they are for chapels in the services today. If we continue the policy we adopted in the previous vote, of making this authorization equal to the money you will ask for, we are going to run into a lot of difficulty. The CHAIRMAN. How many men at Fort Dix now? Colonel DAVIS. Twenty-six thousand there now. The CHAIRMAN. Twenty-six thousand men at Camp Dix now? How many chapels have you? Colonel DAVIs. I don't have that figure available, sir. The CHAIRMAN. How many chapels up there? General BARRIGER. We will give it to you in a moment, sir. Mr. PRICE. That could happen on some other building, Mr. Chairman. I am just citing that as an example. The CHAIRMAN. They could ask for part of the money for it, but they didn't ask for it. Mr. PRICE. Yes. We leave them no leeway. That is my point. Mr. VAN ZANDT. When they decide to build this chapel they can come back and get authorization. We are sitting all the year around. The CHAIRMAN. We passed about four supplementary appropriation bills in the last 6 months. We will continue to pass them whenever the need is there. I know I am on sound ground if we give to this Department practically everything they have in the appropriation bill, if it can be justified. There is no need to go beyond the authorization. You are committing yourself to certain projects and they must be finished. Secretary BENDETSEN. They wouldn't if we were required to come up and clear them The CHAIRMAN. It will cost you $1,136,000 for the headquarters. You are only asking for $825,216. You will come back and say "I want my money to finish that program." We have given you what you plan on. That is all we are doing. It is not hurting you at all. Mr. JOHNSON. What about the chapel? Colonel DAVIS. There are a total of 11 chapels at Fort Dix. Colonel DAVIS. That 26,000 is the military strength. Mr. PHILBIN. What is the full capacity of the camp? Colonel INGRAM. Forty-four thousand six hundred, full capacity. General BARRIGER. Fifty-eight thousand. Mr. JOHNSON. What was that during the war? That is one of the places I visited to get demobilization. What was the capacity of that place in 1945? Colonel DAVIS. It would not be far from the 44,000, I don't believe. Mr. JOHNSON. Why do you need 43 million dollars? You have had that capacity 5 years ago. I know some of the buildings were old. Some were sturdy, good-looking buildings. General BARRINGER. As I said this morning, sir Mr. JOHNSON. Why do you need such an upstep? General BARRIGER. We are keeping at Fort Dix everything that is there now. Everything that is there now. What we are building at Fort Dix in barracks are permanent barracks. That increases the mobilization base by releasing the barracks that have been there since World War II. Mr. JOHNSON. Do you plan on having that place completely filled up, or will you have vacant buildings? General BARRIGER. We will have it completely filled up and more. The actual total net shortage will be between 1,700 and 2,000. Mr. JOHNSON. What do you mean? General BARRIGER. Over our planned mobilization figure at M plus 6. Mr. JOHNSON. What will be the total capacity of this station when you get your 29-million-dollar building program added to it? Secretary BENDETSEN. What we will have there, Mr. Johnson, is this: We have temporary barracks, as you know, at Dix. This, if authorized and appropriated, would provide up to, but not beyond, 48 percent of the total requirement at Dix which is a permanent station, as you know. Mr. JOHNSON. What is the total requirement at Dix? You are only going up 15,000 people in a year. Why do you need this 43 million dollars' worth of stuff? I can't understand it. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Johnson. Mr. JOHNSON. Let him explain it. The CHAIRMAN. Let me help him. It is a permanent base, and this will be permanent construction. Instead of building, you have temporary barracks there, instead of continuing it, they propose to build permanent barracks out of cement or bricks. It costs more money. All these items are new items. It will probably increase the capacity of Dix. If it does not increase the capacity of Dix, it is permanent construction that is going to stand instead of having to come in every year and ask replacement of temporary structures. Mr. JOHNSON. Let me pursue my question. Those temporary barracks, what is the life remaining in them? Secretary BENDETSEN. They were built for a 5-year life. General BARRIGER. The life remaining. I am familiar with Dix. I was up there as a soldier instead of a staff officer. The CHAIRMAN. Is that the reason for your appearance before the committee? General BARRIGER. It is not the reason I am before this committee, but I would rather be a soldier than be up here. The maintenance problem on these barracks, if we keep on maintaining them, they might last another 10 years but the maintenance cost on them are terrific. The floors are worn out; the stairways are worn out; the heating plants are worn out. So it depends on how much money you pour into them as to how long they will last. Mr. ELSTON. Have you sold any of them, General? General BARRIGER. There were some of the old tarpaper shacks that were sold and carted off. Mr. ELSTON. World War I. General BARRIGER. World War I, I believe. Mr. JOHNSON. These barracks, how much would it cost to put life in them that would last 10 years, which might be the time when we get to a normal basis again? Mr. GAVIN. If the Congressman would go down and take a look he would see that that would be an utter impossibility. Most of them are shacks. General BARRIGER. I don't know how much it would cost. |