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Q. Did you have any discussion with her concerning sending the telegram to the committee?

A. No; I didn't. I don't think I discussed that with her.

I think I mentioned something—I asked her was she going to come. She said, “Yes; I'm going to come.” She couldn't come then, she said, because of the arrangements, but she indicated she would come eventually.

Q. Let us devote our attention to the call on December 21. Did you call her or did she call you?

A. She called me.
Q. Where was she when she called you?
A. Again I assume it was from Puerto Rico.
Q. It was a long-distance call?
Ă. Yes, sir.
Q. Your testimony is that you received that call at your home?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was it in the daytime or nighttime?
Ă. Daytime, in the afternoon about 2 o'clock.

Q. Will you tell the committee what she said and what you said to her in that conversation?

A. Well, again she said she wanted to talk to Mr. Powell, again about some personal matters. She was at her lawyer's office at the time she called. Her lawyer's name was Renaldo Panaigua. It seemed to be more important to her in the conversation that she get in touch with Mr. Powell. Again I asked what is it about—the hearing?

She said “No," this is about the household and some personal money problems she was having

I said all I can do—"Well, I wrote to him after the first call for him to get in touch with you. I will do my best to get in touch with him."

She said, "I'm having a hard time getting phone calls."

She said, “Call me back at this number," which was the lawyer's number, and she gave me a number in San Juan. She apparently doesn't live in San Juan. I took the number, and I forwarded the number in the message to Mr. Powell in the mail.

Q. Did she indicate to you whether Mr. Powell had called her after she talked to you on the 19th?

A. She had not talked to him. She told me then she was coming up. I told her I felt she should come. I said, “If you don't come you will be in contempt of Congress.”

Then she said about the baby and so forth.

I said, “I will tell you what I will do. I will meet you at the plane with heavy clothing for you and the child. You can stay at my place and my wife will take care of them. If you wish you can stay at my place, also. Whatever arrangements you want me to make I will be happy to help you in any way.” Mr. DEVINE. This was on the 21st? The WITNESS. Yes, sir.

Q. What did she say to that?

A. She said she would let me know. She said, "I will talk to you later on.

I said, “Fine, call me any time. I will be glad to talk to you. Let me know when you are coming.”

Q. Have you heard from her since?

A. No. I called the day before yesterday, I think it was. I called her at the lawyer's office and left word that I had called. I called about 11 in the morning sometime and left word.

Q. Day before yesterday, December 28? Is that right?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you have not had a response to that message you left for her to call you?

A. That is right.
Mr. O'CONNOR. I don't think I have any further questions.
Mr. Hays. Mr. Stone, you did urge her to come up?

The WITNESS. Yes. I said "I think you ought to come up."
Mr. Hays. And she just was vague about whether she would or not?

The WITNESS. She said she was coming. She wasn't vague. She said she would be here. Mr. Hays. She said she was coming but didn't say when? The WITNESS. That is right. Mr. Hays. Did you at any time tell her you thought it was important for her to come when the committee set a date for her?

The WITNESS. No. I said, "I think you ought to come up here. Anything I can do for you in terms of your trip, all right.”

She was joking about the cold weather. I said, "I will meet you at the plane, get on the plane with heavy clothing for you and the child so when you get off the plane you will have heavy clothing. You can stay at the house. So far as any physical problem is concerned that is no problem.” She indicated on the phone she would be here.

Q. Do you know whether Mrs. Powell works in Puerto Rico?

A. I don't know, sir. I have stayed clear of that relationship with Mrs. Powell.

Q. Have you heard from Mr. Powell since you testified on the 19th? A. He called me 2 days ago; yes.

Q. Did you have a discussion with him relative to his appearance before the committee?

A. No, sir. He called me—he wanted to see a chest specialist. He had a very bad cold. Contact a friend of his in Miami for some groceries, and that was all. Didn't discuss the committee or anything like that.

Q. Did you advise him a subpena was out for Miss Huff?
A. No. I didn't think about that.

Did you talk with Cleomine Lewis recently?
A. No; she is on vacation. I have not seen her in about 2 weeks.
Q. Do you know whether she is back in the District of Columbia?

A. No, sir. I had a message on my desk, I am not sure whether it was a telephone call or telegram, about 2 or 3 days ago that she was taking treatments somewhere. She has had a stroke and a twitch in her face. She was taking some new kind of—she went to a specialist and asked for a specialist. She said, “I assume this is all right and I will see you the first of the year.

Q. Extension of the vacation? . :?
A. Yes.
Q. She is out in California?
A. I don't know,

Mr. O'CONNOR. I have no further questions.

Mr. DICKINSON. We have run into some perplexing things, I think, during the course of this investigation. One of these has to do with vacation trips furnished by the committee for various members of the staff. They just don't make sense. Since you testified you went on a vacation trip at the invitation of the chairman, Mr. Powell,

The WITNESS. That is right. Mr. DICKINSON. You and your wife, "Let's go to Bimini and go on vacation,” and Mr. Powell picked up the tab?

The WITNESS. Yes. Mr. DICKINSON. Others on the committee said Mr. Powell walks up to them and gives them a ticket with no conversation and says, "Take a vacation. Go to Miami.” Is this a common practice? Is this usual on a committee? Do you know anything about this?

The WITNESs. No; I don't know about that. You say give the ticket like that?

Mr. DICKINSON. Yes, with no conversation as far as we can ascertain. She understood it would be for a vacation and she took a vacation with the ticket. It looks like we are getting into the vacationland business here, Miami and free tickets from the committee. I wondered whether you could shed light on this...

The WITNESS. I didn't know anything about that, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. Have there been more than one occasion when he has taken either you and/or your wife on a vacation before?

The WITNESS. No. Mr. DICKINSON. This is the only instance you have knowledge of? The WITNESS. Yes. Last year I paid my own way on vacation. Mr. DICKINSON. I meant furnished by Mr. Powell either personally or through the committee?

The WITNESS. No, sir. This was the only time. Mr. DICKINSON. You have no knowledge of any other vacation trips any other members of the committee took?

The WITNESS. Staff? Mr. DICKINSON. Yes. You wouldn't have much personal knowledge of his personal staff, anyway, would you?

The WITNESS. Very little. I have very little to do with the congressional staff, in fact almost no contact at all.

Mr. DICKINSON. There have been some who testified, and I can understand on the Hill it is not unusual, who have gone on a business trip and combined business and pleasure. You said you did this yourself?

The WITNESS. That is right. Mr. DICKINSON. This is often done by members of the committee, I assume. Would that be a fair statement?

The WITNESS. I couldn't really answer that accurately, . not definitely.

Mr. ĎICKINSON. You said at one time you bought-at least one time you bought-a block of tickets, 20 to 30.

The WITNESS. Yes, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. From what I have been able to understand from this a group went to Miami and back using part of these tickets? I think later some were turned back in.

The WITNESS. That is right. Mr. DICKINSON. Do you recall that trip when the group used part of these tickets and went to Miami and came back? I think most

ed the WITNES, in fact almoste been so who have gone you di

The. DICKINould thacould

The WICKINSON; to Miam

southe WHICKINSON w some ve specific or the names when you bought

of them were from the committee, but I think it might have been in the nature of an investigation or vacation. I don't know.

The WITNESS. A group went? Mr. DICKINSON. Four or five.

Mr. Hays. May I interrupt there? Was this testimony he bought 20 tickets for Miami to New York? Mr. DickinsON. A block of tickets.

The WITNESS. I purchased a block of tickets. They were different

Mr. Hays. Different destinations?

The WITNESS. New York to Miami, and Washington to Miami. There was a block of tickets. Mr. DICKINSON. You said 20 to 30 and you didn't know how many. The WITNESS. That is right. Mr. DICKINSON. As I recall your testimony, some were Washington to Miami.

The WITNESS. Yes; that is right. Mr. DICKINSON. Some from Washington to New York to Miami, and some just New York to Miami?

The WITNESS. That is right.

Mr. DICKINSON. They all terminated in Miami and got back here somehow?

The WITNESS. That is right. Mr. DICKINSON. You don't know the ultimate use they were all put to but you knew some were used and without going into that you said he directed you to put five specific names on all the tickets?

The WITNESS. That is right. Any of the names I put there were always at the specific direction of Mr. Powell.

Mr. DICKINSON. Were there other occasions when you bought what you referred to as blocks of tickets, 10, 20, 30?

The WITNESS. No, sir. That was the only time, that one time. Mr. DICKINSON. You don't remember any particular occasion for this purchase?

The WITNESS. No. I was directed to make the purchase. Mr. DICKINSON. As far as you know there was no need on the committee for this particular number of tickets at this particular time?

The WITNESS. I don't recall any, sir.
Mr. DICKINSON. I have no further questions.
Mr. O'CONNOR. I would like to follow up.

Mr. Hays. Gentlemen, we have to get this over. I want you to move this along. I have to leave at 5:45 and so does Mr. Devine. There is no point in dragging this on.

Mr. DEVINE. Did I understand you correctly that the last time you have physically seen Mrs. Powell was in 1959?

The WITNESS. That is right.
Mr. DEVINE. Seven years ago?

The WITNESS. That is right.
Mr. DEVINE. That is all.

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. On July 30, 1965, there was a group consisting of Representative Powell, Stone, Swann, Lewis, Himes, and Clark that were on the same plane from the District of Columbia to Miami?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you recall that trip?
Ă. No; I don't, sir. July of 1965?

July 30, 1965.
Ă. No, sir.
Q. Did you ever make a trip yourself with that group of people?
A. No.
Mr. O'CONNOR. I have no further questions.
Mr. Hays. Thank you, Mr. Stone.
Mr. DICKINSON. Thank you.
Mr. O'CONNOR. May Mř. Stone be excused from the subpena?
Mr. Hays. Absolutely.
The WITNESS. Happy New Year, gentlemen.
Mr. Hays. Same to you, sir.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. O'CONNOR. We have one more item of business so far as the
record is concerned, Mr. Chairman, and that is what was brought up
before the luncheon recess, the number of the employees of the com- .
mittee who had been contacted.

I would like to have Mr. Gray resume the stand to testify concerning that.

Q. Underembers whose names Labor and on tihon and Labor

Q. Weresir. Sixty-nine should say.wittee how the

ROBERT E. GRAY having been previously duly sworn, was examined and testified further as follows:

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. Under your direction, Mr. Gray, was an investigation conducted as to the Members whose names appeared on the payroll of the standing Committee on Education and Labor and on the Ad Hoc Committee No. 7 on Poverty of the Committee on Education and Labor?

A. Yes.

Q. During the period January 3, 1965, to September 30, 1965, how many names appeared on that payroll?

A. Eighty-three.
Q. Were all 83 persons contacted ?

A. No, sir. Sixty-nine were contacted—well, they were all contacted, or accounted for I should say.

Q. Would you explain to the committee how they were contacted or accounted for?

A. Sixty-nine were either contacted or accounted for by the investigators. One person was deceased. Thirteen were subpenaed, ten of whom appeared and three did not appear but we are satisfied that they exist.

Q. Who are the three that did not appear? A. Miss Corrinne Huff, Cleomine B. Lewis, and James F. McCarthy. Q. That accounts for all the names that were on the payroll? A. Yes. Mr. Hays. Perhaps the record should show that Mr. McCarthy is in the hospital and has been during the time of these hearings.

Tha O'CONNOR. and has been cord should she

I have no further questions.
Mr. Hays. That is all.
(Committee adjourned at 2:50 p.m. December 30, 1966.)

BD 19. 6

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