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A. I know nothing about this.
Mr. Hays. And you did not take the trip?
The WITNESS. I did not make the travel.

Q. Mr. Warren, I am going to show you again Warren exhibit No. 1.

Mr. Hays. It seems as though there was a mistake on the sheet here. The ticket from New York to Miami which has your name on it—and we are doing this to clear the record—shows that it was used on the 21st of May, going to Miami. But the return from Miami to New York—maybe this was a reverse trip, I don't know, but it was used on the 15th of May. So it would appear that whoever used this ticketand you said you didn't

started out in Miami and came up here and then went back.

I don't know. But in any case, after looking at it again, you say you didn't use it; is that right?

The WITNESS. No; I did not use it.
Mr. Hays. You know nothing about it?

Mr. WAGGONNER. If that conflict does exist, this ticket having been used on the 21st rather than on the 15th, then there is a further conflict because the transportation between Washington and Miami on the 18th by Warren too

Mr. DICKINSON. Credited to Mr. Warren.
Mr. WAGGONNER. At least credited to him as having traveled then.

Mr. TAYLER. Do you have another Miami-Washington ticket for Mr. Warren over there? It should be No. 2.

Warren exhibit No. 2, I believe, was correctly identified in the record as showing travel from Washington to Miami on May 18 and the return from Miami to Washington on May 23; yes. There is no error with respect to No. 2. He has answered with respect to that one.

Mr. Hays. Yes.
Mr. TAYLER. We have one more.

Mr. Hays. The third one I have in my hand which I will show you indicates that somebody traveled with the name J. Warren on the ticket to Miami and return, both on the same day, June 29. I would ask you if you used those or know anything about them?

Mr. TAYLER. That is the year 1966, Mr. Warren.
THE WITNESS. No; I did not.

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By Mr. TAYLER: Q. You did not use them? A. No; I did not use them. Q. And the second part of the chairman's question; do you know anything about the tickets?

A. Well, I have picked up tickets before at the ticket office for the chairman and

Q. In your name?
A. I have picked tickets up in my name.

You know it is more convenient when you are buying them at the time.

Q. With whose credit card?

A. I don't remember, because I always recived the cards from the chairman.

Q. You received—now my questions are directed to this period January 3, 1965, to the present. During that time is it your testimony that Mr. Powell has given you a credit card and sent you to the Capitol airlines ticket office to purchase tickets in your name?

Ā. No; the chairman has not instructed me to purchase the tickets in my name. The reservations people were told we would be picking up tickets and I would go over and I would pick them up.

Q: What instructions did you have from Mr. Powell as to the name of the traveler that you should give to the airline to place on the ticket?

A. I don't remember any specific instructions concerning that.

Q. Well, then, these instances such as the ones we have just shown you, such as the Miami trips which you say you didn't make, how did it come about that your name appears on the tickets as the traveler, if you know?

A. I wouldn't have any idea.

Mr. Hays. Is it possible, Mr. Warren, that you might have been sent over to the ticket office and said there are tickets over there, go over and pick them?

The WITNESS. Yes, sir.

Mr. Hays. And would you take a credit card with you when you did that or would you just can you remember whether you always took a credit card or whether you just went over and picked up tickets that they said were there to pick up?

The WITNESS. No, sir; I can't remember.

Mr. Hays. But you do remember having taken a credit card on some occasions? The WITNESS. Yes, sir.

By Mr. TAYLER: Did you ever look at the tickets that you picked up to see who the name of the traveler was on them?

A. In all truthfulness, I can't say yes or no, because I don't remember that clearly.

Q. Did you ever pick up any tickets on which you were listed as the traveler when you knew you were not scheduled to make the trip and in fact you didn't make the trip?

A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. And you can't account for the fact that these 31 tickets, exhibits 1, 2, and 3, show you traveling or purport to show you traveling between here and Miami?

A. No, sir.
Mr. TAYLER. That is all I have.

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. When you went to New York and stayed with friends, give us the names of the friends you stayed with.

A. I have stayed with Mr. Odell Clark, who is the chief investigator; stayed at his home.

Q. What is his address?
A. 132 West 138th Street.
Q. Who else have you stayed with up there?
A. Just with the Clarks.
Q. Just with the Clarks only?
A. Right.
Q. Was Mr. Clark up there each time you went up?
A. I don't remember.

Q. Well, you certainly remember whether Mr. Clark was there. Does he have a house, or an apartment?

A. No; he has an apartment.
Q. How large an apartment is it?
A. Let's see-well, bedroom, living room, kitchen, bath.
Q. One bedroom?
A. Yes, correct.
Q. Living room, kitchen, and bath?
A. Right.
Q. What is the address of that apartment?
A. 132 West 138th Street.
Q. That is also the chairman's apartment in New York, is it not?
A. I wouldn't know, sir.

Q. Well, if it is one bedroom and you would spend the night there, you would know whether anybody was in the bedroom with you.

A. Well, I have never spent the night there while the chairman was there.

Q. Or while Mr. Clark was there?

A. Mr. Clark has been there on occasions, I am sure, but I didn't want to say, because I can't remember specifically when he was there and when he wasn't.

Q. Is Mr. Clark married?
A. Mr. Clark is married.

Q. And you would stay in the apartment up there and that is why you wouldn't claim per diem, is that your testimony?

A. Correct, sir.

Q. Now, it seems to me that you would recall the number of times that you have stayed at the Clark apartment.

A. Well, the reason I can't recall the number of times I have stayed is because I have stayed there frequently. I have been to New York to visit with them when I have gone on my own for my own reasons, when I have been visiting other friends and relatives there.

Q. What other friends would you spend the night with?

A. I have always stayed at the Clarks'. As I said, I visited other people but I have stayed with them.

Q. In other words, any overnight trip up there you have always stayed at the Clark apartment?

Å. Right.

Q. Now, on one trip you put in a claim for per diem, September 30, 1965.

A. I don't recall—I don't remember anything about that. Q. Well, do you remember putting in a particular voucher? A. No, sir. Mr. O'CONNOR. Do you have a copy of the voucher, September 30, 1965?

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. That is the time you drove up in your automobile. A. I drove in my automobile? Q. That is what it says. You don't have an automobile? A. I have one, sir, but I don't rememberQ. Ever driving up? Mr. DEVINE. Did he have one then? The WITNESS. Well, I must retract that. I have driven up before. I have driven up with Mr. Clark but I don't remember any voucher.

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. While we are getting the voucher we will proceed. Did you go up on committee business each time you went up? A. I did, sir. Q. And when—where would you transact this committee business?

A. Well, whenever I have gone there, it has been during times of hearings or investigations or something like that.

Mr. Hays. This is no good. It doesn't have a signature on it.

Mr. O'CONNOR. Can we get the one with the signature? Let's send one of the boys over to get it and we will recall him.

Mr. DICKINSON. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.)

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. Can you explain to us why your trips to New York, principally, were on Sundays and Mondays?

A. Well, all I know, sir, is that being in the chairman's office, working for the chairman, I was instructed to do something, and I did it. I mean I didn't question him or his reason for it. As I said, during the times that I went to New York, if I can remember correctly, there were hearings or investigations going on and there was a matter of papers being transacted between the two places. Beyond that, I don't-I haven't any knowledge.

Q. Did you take papers up to be signed or something?
A. I have carried papers to New York and from there back here.
Q. For whose use?
A. I can't say exactly for whose use.
Q. Who would you deliver them to up there?

A. Well, when I would take them to New York, if it was during the time of a hearing or something, I was usually met by someone.

Q. Well, were the hearings held on Sundays?
A. No, sir.
Q. So if you were going up-

A. I am not saying that I am going up there for hearings. I am saying whatever was done was done in connection with hearings or investigations.

Q. All right.
Mr. O'CONNOR. Let's excuse the witness.
Mr. TAYLER. I have another question.

By Mr. TAYLER: Q: Mr. Warren, with respect to the three trips to Miami, again, would it refresh your recollection as to how those tickets were issued if I told you that they were purchased on Mr. Stone's credit card?

A. No, sir.

Q. Do you recall any of the circumstances under which those tickets were purchased, now that you know that fact?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did Mr. Stone ever send you to the Capital ticket office with his credit card and tell you to buy any tickets to Miami in your name?

A. I have been to the ticket office, Mr. Stone has sent me there, but I don't remember whether the tickets were for Miami or where, and I don't recall his telling me to purchase any tickets in my name.

Q. But you have gone to the ticket office with Mr. Stone's credit card to purchase tickets? A. Yes; I have.

Q. Are you married, Mr. Warren?
A. No; I am not.

Mr. Hays. We will excuse you until we get this one voucher. We would like to ask you if you signed it.

Mr. WAGGONNER. I have a question or two, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Hays. All right.

Mr. WAGGONNER. Mr. Warren, does Mr. Powell to your knowledge have an office in New York?

The WITNESS. Yes, the chairman does have a congressional office in New York.

Mr. WAGGONNER. Do you know where that office is?
The WITNESS. I can't remember the address.
Mr. WAGGONNER. Have you ever been to it?

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