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The WITNESS. That is correct, the letter having been directed to the Clerk of the House and the Clerk of the House approving it and sending it to us, we followed the directions of the Clerk, who is the disbursing officer.

Mr. DICKINSON. Is this usual, or customary, or unusual?
The WITNESS. It is unusual, I would say.

Mr. DICKINSON. Do you know of another instance when this occurred, where the chairman tells the disbursing officer of the House where to send an employee's check?

The WITNESS. I don't recall any. Mr. Hays. She is an employee of his personal office and not of the committee.

Mr. DICKINSON. I will be glad to bring that out.

At the time when this direction was made, was she an employee of Mr. Powell on his personal staff, or of the committee?

The WITNESS. My recollection is that she was an employee of the Member, on his personal clerk-hire roll.

Mr. DICKINSON. As far as you know the rules of the House-does a Member have the authority to direct the Clerk to send the employee's paychecks to various places?

The WITNESS. The strict practice, actually, is to have the directions of the employee. We want to get the check to the employee. That is the sense of the law and we attempt to do that.

Mr. DICKINSON. I understand but, of course, coming out of these hearings will be various recommendations, I anticipate, for dealing with various matters and this will probably be one of them, as to the direction and control an employee may have of his own paycheck. That is the purpose of this question.

As the rules are now, a Member has the authority to direct the Clerk to send all his employees' paychecks to him personally if he desires.

The WITNESS. I would say “No.Mr. DICKINSON. Does he have the authority to direct the Clerk to send one employee's paycheck as he desires?

The WITNESS. Not unless the Clerk wants to comply with it. Mr. DICKINSON. I am talking about his authority now. The WITNESS. He has no authority. Mr. DICKINSON. If the Clerk decides to do it, he just does so at his own volition?

The WITNESS. That is correct. Mr. DICKINSON. He doesn't have to do it because the employee actually has a right to direct his own checks; is this correct?

The WITNESS. That is correct, and that is what we look for and to support that—of course, I have been here quite a long time; I have been here since I was a boy and I know the history of the clerk-hire law, and the purpose was to put the name of the employee on the check, changing it from the Member's control of it, to put the name of the employee on the check so that the employee would get the check and the money for the services of assisting the Member directly.

Mr. Hays. Mr. Megill, is it customary in your office for employees to call your office and say, “Send my check to so and so” and have no further communication from them?

The WITNESS. No, sir; it is not customary.
Mr. Hays. Well, is it ever done?

72–404 0—67—-20

The WITNESS. Not with my knowledge. It is not an approved practice if it is done

Mr. Hays. For example, suppose an employee in the Member's office had been going over after his check and would ask that it be sent to a bank, for example, by phone. Would you do that?

The WITNESS. No, sir. We would require a written card. We have a little card that accomplishes that, or a note in writing so that we can recognize the signature of the employee. We want the direction of the employee. Mr. Hays. It has to be in writing? The WITNESS. Yes, sir. Mr. Hays. By the employee? The WITNESS. That is right.

Mr. DICKINSON. Getting back to my line of questioning now, you say that a Member does not, by the rules of the House, have the right to direct an employee's check to be sent any place other than the employee?

The WITNESS. I would say under the intent of the law. It is not a rule. The law directs the Clerk of the House to make the disbursements. The Member does not have that right.

The fruits of the performance, the employer directs the individual, but the law is that the check go directly to the employee.

Mr. DICKINSON. In this instance then we have made an exception to this law as far as the clerk is concerned, haven't we, or your office has?

The WITNESS. There is a slight exception, on the direction of the clerk that the location be changed. From the Cannon Building to the Rayburn Building.

Mr. TAYLER. Mr. Chairman, if I could interrupt Mr. Dickinson, I think I can clear up something that I think perhaps isn't understood. May I? Mr. DICKINSON. Yes, please do.

By Mr. TAYLER: Q. At the time, Mr. Megill, that you received this January 4, 1966, letter from Mr. Powell directing that Miss Flores' paychecks be sent to room 2161 of the Rayburn Building, Mr. Powell's new office, instead of going to 429 Cannon House Office Building, his former office, did you have on file a written direction from Miss Flores that her paychecks be sent to Mr. Powell's office in the Cannon House Office Building?

The WITNESS. We did. We had a written directive from Miss Flores as early as about 1951. I have the cards there that could be supplied.

Mr. Hays. Then in that case this letter was merely changing the office suites and not anything new?

The WITNESS. Due to the change of the committee location; yes, sir.

Mr. Hays. So technically then the Member wasn't directing the clerk to send her check. She had already done that, is that right?

The WITNESS. She had already given directions.
Mr. Hays. And you have a record in the file indicating that?
The WITNESS. Yes, sir.

By Mr. TAYLER: Q. Mr. Megill, to further clarify this, if you had received this January 4, 1966, letter, which I believe is now Megill No. 3, from Mr. Powell, directing you to send Miss Flores' paycheck to his office, and at that time you had on file nothing from Miss Flores to send her paycheck to his office, would you have done so? Would you have changed the place to which Miss Flores' paycheck was being sent?

A. I would not have done so under our practice. Q. Under your practice? A. Yes, sir. We would not have observed that. Mr. DEVINE. I would like to ask counsel if there is any reason that the original 1951 card of authorization from Miss Flores has not been made part of the record here if it can be made available?

Mr. TAYLER. I had intended to bring that into the record through Mr. Megill and I believe our instructions to him this morning were a little bit remiss.

By Mr. TAYLER: Q. Mr. Megill, could you search your records and locate the original written instructions from Miss Flores to have her checks sent to Mr. Powell's office and produce a photostatic copy of it for the committee for insertion in the record here?

A. I will produce the cards that are on file that show the various steps in the change of direction.

Q. There would be more than one, you think?
A. Yes, sir. As I recall, there are about four of them.

Q. Would you produce all of those written instructions from Miss Flores in that regard?

A. I will, sir.
Mr. Hays. In the form of photostats.
Mr. NEDZI. How long has Miss Flores been on the payroll?

The WITNESS. It seems to me it is 1951. I would like to refer to the record for that.

Mr. Hays. Without objection, put the exact date in the record later.

(The information requested, when received, will appear in the record at this point.)

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Mr. NEDZI. Has she indicated any dependents in making application?

The WITNESS. I think there is one claim of the mother in some of those papers. I think she claims one dependent, as I recall.

Mr. NEDZI. I have no further questions.
Mr. Hays. That is all, Mr. Megill. Thank you very much.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Hays. All right, we are ready for the next witness.
Mr. Warren, will you stand and raise your right hand?

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JOHN E. WARREN, having been duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

By Mr. TAYLER: Q. Will you state your full name for the record. A. John Everett Warren. Q. Your address. Å. 4065 Minnesota Avenue NE. Q. Washington? A. Washington, D.C. Mr. Hays. Mr. Warren, your appearance before this committee will be in executive session unless you request it to be in public session. If your appearance is in executive session, the press and public will not be admitted to the hearing room, and pursuant to paragraph 26, House of Representatives rule XI, your testimony may not be used or released in public session without the consent of the committee.

If your appearance is in public session, the public and the news reporters will be admitted.

I now ask you whether you choose to appear before this committee in executive or public session.

The WITNESS. Executive session. Mr. Hays. Yes, sir.

You were advised that you could bring counsel with you if you so desired?

The WITNESS. Yes, sir; I was. Mr. Hays. You are here without counsel. You did receive a copy of paragraph 26, rule 11 with your letter?

The WITNESS. I did. Mr. Hays. Were you here the other day when I read the opening statement as to the purposes of the investigation?

The WITNESS. I was.
Mr. Hays. Did you understand it?
The WITNESS. Yes, I did.
Mr. Hays. You do agree to proceed without counsel?
The WITNESS. Yes, I do.
Mr. Hays. Yes.

By Mr. TAYLER:
Q. What is your present employment, Mr. Warren?

A. I am presently in the chairman's office as an assistant clerk and my duties consist of

Q. Just a minute. Would you identify the chairman and the committee?

A. Congressman Powell, the Committee on Education and Labor. Q. What are your duties as an assistant clerk?

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