Q. If you had gone via New York, wouldn't you perhaps have listed some expenses for taxis or airport limousines? meet me. A. Not necessarily. In most cases when I go to New York people New York is my home, and I know most people. I would not necessarily have expense in New York. There is one of the biggest locals of this union that I was involved with in Chicago which is in New York. By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. Where is the national headquarters of the union? A. In Washington, I believe. The local we were involved with was in Chicago. Q. The local in New York wouldn't necessarily have affiliation with the Chicago local, would it? A. Yes, sir. They are all in the international. Q. I know they belong to the international, but that is located in Washington. A. Yes, sir. All of these people who are heads of locals are board members of the international, and in an investigation you talk to everybody who had something to do with the problem. Q. They have locals in other cities, too. A. That is correct. Those which have a bearing on the information I was interested in were in New York and Chicago, and not even too much in Washington. By Mr. TAYLER: Q. Mr. Clark, the transportation receipt that you have just examined, issued on January 28, 1965, showing issuance of a ticket to you from the District of Columbia, New York, Chicago, the District of Columbia, we have been unable to turn up in the audit any ticket that was used or any ticket that was turned in for refund that was issued against this transportation receipt. A. I don't get that. Q. Do you have any explanation of why that particular ticket was issued in your name and was never used or refunded? A. I don't get that. This ticket issued never was used? Q. That ticket against that transportation receipt on January 28, 1965, which bears your name as the traveler, has not been used or refunded, according to the airline records. Can you account for that in any way? A. Now you really confuse me. used? Q. That is right. You mean the ticket was never A. I don't know anything about that. Q. You still have any tickets left over from 1965? A. I have not. This I really wouldn't know anything about. Q. You cannot relate that ticket specifically and positively to your Chicago trip on February— A. I cannot. Q. No further questions. Mr. HAYS. Is it possible that you might have at some time, or perhaps more than one time, been issued a ticket which you did not use, like requesting a ticket or the chairman asked you to go to X city, something turned up, and you did not go? The WITNESS. There were times when I didn't use it, I returned them. Mr. HAYS. That was the next question. You returned them for refund. To whom did you return them? The WITNESS. I didn't return them for refund, but just returned them back. Mr. HAYS. To whom? The WITNESS. From where I got them. Most of the time I used the card. For example, I know in one instance I was given a ticket to California, I believe, sometime this past summer, and 2 days after there was an airline strike. The airline struck, I don't remember how long it was, a month or 6 weeks, but whatever it was there was the emergency, the necessity was still in Los Angeles, but the emergency was no longer important so I turned the ticket back. I turned it in to the chief clerk. Mr. O'CONNOR. Miss Dargans? The WITNESS. Yes. Mr. HAYS. What I am getting at is this: There is always the possibility that tickets are turned in and pushed in a desk drawer and just not returned to the airline. The WITNESS. To my knowledge Mr. HAYS. Whenever you did not use it, you turned it back to the office? The WITNESS. That is right. Mr. TAYLER. Could that transportation receipt be marked "Clark Exhibit No. 5"? (The above-referred-to document was marked "Clark Exhibit 5.) Mr. TAYLER. At this time, Mr. Chairman, I offer Clark exhibits 1 through 5 for introduction into the record at the appropriate place. Mr. HAYS. Without objection, they will be introduced at the appropriate place. (Clark exhibits 1 through 5 were received in evidence.) Mr. HAYS. Any other questions? By Mr. O'CONNER: Q. The examination of the airline travel indicates numerous trips in which tickets bearing your name, travel was performed with Miss Swann, Miss Huff, Miss Harris, Miss Lewis. Do you have any information of tickets being issued in your name for travel which you individually did not perform? A. No, sir. You are telling me about it for the first time. Q. In all of your 5 years with the committee, you have not known of a practice such as that? A. No, sir. Q. Have you ever obtained tickets for the chairman or for anyone else? A. No, sir. Q. In the names of somebody else on the committee? A. No, sir. Q. Have you ever been told by either Mr. Stone, Miss Dargans, or any other staff member that they were using your name? A. No, sir. Q. On travel tickets? A. No, sir, they wouldn't dare. Q. If such had been brought to your attention, would you have objected to it? A. That is why I said they wouldn't dare. I certainly would have. Q. Apparently your name appearing on some of these airline tickets has taken you by surprise. Is that correct? A. To say the least. Q. This is the first time you have been aware that this practice has been going on? A. You say practice. It is the first time I am aware, if it is true, taking your word for it, that my names are on tickets that I have not used them. This is the first time I have heard of it. By Mr. TAYLER: Q. You saw some tickets here tonight that have your name on them and you did not use them. A. That is correct. Mr. HAYS. I think it is fair to point out to you they did dare, and we have had testimony that your name was put on tickets which were not for you. That is for your information. They might not have dared let you know about it, but they did dare to do it. By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. Where is your officer here in the committee? A. 2181. Q. Who else is in that office with you? A. Derrickson, Dargans, Matthews, Thompson. Q. Miss Dargans runs a pretty tight control on the issuance of airline tickets, does she not? A. I really don't know, sir. I don't know what anyone's function is or has been. We have our responsibilities, and I wouldn't necessarily know that Miss Dargans did and she would not necessarily know what I did. If I requested a ticket, I got it on all occasions. There never was an occasion or question about what she did. Mr. HAYS. Did you get tickets through Miss Dargans at times? The WITNESS. Yes. Mr. HAYS. Did she make you sign for them when you got them? The WITNESS. To the best of my knowledge, she did. Mr. HAYS. That is what counsel means by running a tight ship. He was complimenting her, in other words. The WITNESS. Complimenting and not complimenting, I am not taking anything away. I would compliment her, too, as far as that is concerned. As I said, I am answering the question. I don't know who runs what. I know what I ran. By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. I take you to mean that when you traveled you took tickets from Dargans, Derrickson, or Stone. A. That is right. Mr. O'CONNOR. I have nothing further. By Mr. TAYLER: Q. Do you know a lady named Y. Marjorie Flores? A. Yes. Q. Listed on Mr. Powell's clerk hire staff? A. Yes. Q. I gave you the name as it appears on the payroll. I was not trying to trick you. Q. Have you seen her within the past 2 years? A. Yes. Q. When was the last time you saw her? A. I don't remember. I think it was possibly a year ago. Q. And before that, when was the last time? A. I don't remember. Q. How many times have you seen her since January 3, 1965? A. I don't remember, sir. Q. More than once, more than the one occasion you mentioned? A. I wouldn't remember. Q. Where did you see her on that occasion? A. I don't remember the last time I saw this young lady that you refer to. I don't remember. By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. You said you saw her once. Where did you see her? A. Once in Washington and once in New York. The exact time I don't remember. By Mr. TAYLER: Q. You don't know whether it was within the last 2 years? Q. Where was she when you saw her in Washington? A. I don't Q. Was she in the Congressman's office? A. I don't remember whether it was or not. You are asking for dates when I don't remember things that were of no concern to me. Q. Did you ever see her in the Congressman's office in the past 2 years? A. I don't remember whether it was in the Congressman's office, but I have seen her in the last 2 years. Q. Did you ever see her in New York in the last 2 years? Q. Where was she then? A. I believe I saw her at the church. Q. Have you ever seen Miss Flores at any time during the past 2 years when she was doing work for the Congressman? A. I have no knowledge of what work anyone is doing, sir. Q. I didn't ask you about the work anyone is doing. I asked about Miss Flores. A. I have no knowledge of the work Miss Flores is doing. Q. For the past 2 years. Does your answer cover the past 2 years? A. I have no knowledge of the work anyone does there but me. Q. Was she working on the occasions you saw her during the past 2 years? A. When I saw her, she was not working. Mr. TAYLER. That is all. Mr. DICKINSON. For matters of per diem, where are you based? The WITNESS. Washington. Mr. DICKINSON. Do you know all the employees of the committee on which you are special investigator, chief investigator? The WITNESS. No, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. Do you know approximately how many there are on the committee? The WITNESS. No, sir. Mr. DICKINSON. You made a statement that while in New York you stayed where the problem is. Does that mean you roomed in various places in the city, or took rooms in hotels? The WITNESS. In New York? Mr. DICKENSON. Yes. The WITNESS. Stayed at home. Mr. DICKINSON. Every time you were in New York, even though you were troubleshooting, you stayed at home? The WITNESS. In New York, yes. Mr. DICKINSON. According to the records we have been able to gather as to your particular travel, you have in the past 2 years, I believe, made some four round trips to Miami. Do you think that would be right? The WITNESS. I wouldn't know. Mr. DICKINSON. You have no idea? The WITNESS. No. Mr. DICKINSON. Would you say it is wrong? The WITNESS. I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say it was right. Mr. DICKINSON. Is four correct, according to the tally of the clerk? (Off the record.) Mr. DICKINSON. Just a rough scanning of the record, there are some 25 trips charged to you in your name to New York and back. Would that sound about right to you? Do you think that is right? The WITNESS. I really wouldn't know. Mr. DICKINSON. You have no opinion on that? The WITNESS. I wouldn't. Mr. DICKINSON. Did you on a Sunday within the past year make a trip from Washington to New York in a group in which Mrs. Upshur was present, Miss Harris, and Miss Dargans? Do you know all three of these people? |