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Q. You mean your own personal business?
A. Yes.
Q. All right, Mr. Tayler:

By Mr. TAYLER: Q. Mr. Clark, I show you a voucher which you submitted for a trip to Los Angeles for the period March 16 through March 20, 1966, for your travel expenses, which voucher has been paid. I ask you if you performed the travel at the place and for the dates indicated on that voucher.

A. If this is a voucher and I signed it this is exactly what I performed, without looking at it.

Mr. TAYLER. May that be marked "Clark No. 1”?
*(To be Alled out and sub

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Address Committee on Education and Labor

0.8. House of Representatives

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I CERTIFY that the above bill is correct and just, and that payment therefor has not been received.

*SIGN ORIGINAL ONLY (B11 must be completely filled in before certi

Payee fication by peyee, and there must not be any erasure or alteration whatever.)

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•Where & voucher is certified by a corporation or company, the name of the person writing the corporate or company name, as well as the capacity in which he signs, must appear. Example: "Ohicago Edison Company, per John Bmith," Secretary or Treasurer, or member of Arm, as the case may be.

1650743-8 OPO

(The above referred to document was marked "Clark Exhibit No. 1.')

By Mr. TAYLER: Q. Now, sir, I show you a National Airlines ticket showing the passenger's name as 0. Clark, from Washington to Miami, with the travel having been made on March 11, 1966, and the return coupon which was reissued for a new ticket from Miami to New York rather than returning Miami to the District of Columbia, and the return portion of this ticket, which is again in the name of Mr. 0. Clark, indicates it was used on March 19, 1966.

I ask you if you made the travel indicated on that ticket.

A. I have no knowledge of the time my voucher claims I was in California. I can add no light to this information you are asking me.

Q. Are you telling us you cannot account for the fact that the voucher shows you in Los Angeles from March 16 to March 20 and there is an airline ticket indicating you as the passenger traveling from the District of Columbia to Miami on March 11 and from Miami to New York on March 19?

A. I am telling you that whatever voucher that I signed, for whatever place that I was in, I am telling you that this is where I was and what happened.

Mr. NEDZI. May I suggest that the witness does examine the voucher and testify as to whether that is his signature, what he actually signed?

The WITNESS. I would be happy to do that.
This is my bad writing.

Mr. Hays. Mr. Clark, you say unequivocally that you were in Los Angeles on those dates?

The WITNESS. Correct, sir.

Mr. Hays. Yet this may not have anything to do with you, I am not accusing you, but these tickets have your name on them. Are you telling us that you know nothing about them and you did not make that travel ?

The WITNESS. I am saying this, sir—if you have tickets here that say that I was somewhere other than the date, that is shown on my voucher I cannot give you any information. Mr. Hays. Can you tell us that you did not use those tickets?

The WITNESS. The only thing I can say to you is that I can give you no information and no light on that whatsoever.

By Mr. TAYLER: Q. Did you or did you not use those tickets? A. I used whatever information, sir, that I used in that voucher. Q. That isn't the answer to my question, sir.

A. That may not be the answer that you are asking me but that is the answer I am giving you. My interpretation is that it is the answer to your question.

Q. It is very simple, Mr. Clark. You can answer the question yes or no. You have the ticket before you. It indicates your name as a passenger from Miami to New York on March 19.

A. That is right.
Q. Did you make the trip?

A. My answer, sir, is that I stand exactly on the voucher that I signed.

Q. Are you saying you were in Los Angeles?

A. I am saying whatever this voucher says that is exactly what I am saying and nothing more.

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Mr. Hays. Mr. lark, nobody in this committee is trying to harass you. We are just trying to find out possibly,

The WITNESS. I don't believe you would. Mr. Hays (continuing). If somebody else used this ticket and used your name, to make it perfectly clear.

You state you were in Los Angeles on those dates?

The WITNESS. I am stating that whatever dates that I have signed

Mr. Hays. Hand him back that paper and have him state the dates.

The WITNESS. Whatever dates are here, from March 16 to March 20 that says I was in Los Angeles, Calif., that is where I was. This is what I am testifying to—not to something else I know nothing about.

Mr. Hays. In other words, if you were in Los Angeles you couldn't possibly have flown from Miami or to? The WITNESS. That is your interpretation.

By Mr. TAYLER: Q. Did you or did you not make the trip? A. I made the trip I signed for. Q. The trip from Miami to New York? A. I made the trip that I signed here for. Q. You didn't make the trip from Miami to New York? A. This trip. This is exactly the trip. Mr. NEDZI. It should be pointed out it is possible to travel across the country these days in 4 hours; we are not badgering you, so I say to the witness it is a proper question. This is possible to have made those trips as well as have been in Los Angeles on the days you signed.

The WITNESS. I don't consider the gentleman badgering me. I don't consider anything. I am testifying to a positive thing and not something I know nothing about. I am testifying to the fact that I was in Los Angeles, Calif., the date that I subscribed to, the dates that I signed to, and that is what I am testifying to. Mr. NEDZI. Were you in Miami? The WITNESS. Is it possible for me to be in Miami and Los Angeles? Mr. NEDZI. Yes. The WITNESS. That is your interpretation, then. Mr. Hays. Just a minute. I think we can clarify this.

Mr. Clark, the voucher shows that you were in Los Angeles on those 5 days.

The WITNESS. Correct, sir.
Mr. Hays. Were you in Los Angeles all those 5 days?
The WITNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. Hays. I don't see we need any more questions.

Q. Were you there with Congressman Hawkins those 5 days?

A. As I said, Congressman Hawkins went with me on the same plane that I went on. I attended the two or three meetings with Congressman Hawkins but I was busy, very busy, with the people, and so forth, so I was not necessarily with him all this time that he was there. I think I came back before he did.

Mr. Hays. You think you came back before he did?

The WITNESS. I am not sure. I am not testifying as to Congressman Hawkins. Mr. Hays. I understand.

The WITNESS. I don't know when he came back. I believe I came back before he did. It was not necessary for me to report to him when I came back. I thought when I had finished what I was doing I could come back. I came back.

By Mr. TAYLER: Q. May all three portions of the ticket be marked "Clark No. 2?

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(The above-referred-to document was marked “Clark Exhibit No. 2.”)

Mr. DICKINSON. Did I understand you to say you were there from the 16th to the 20th and did not leave during that time?

The WITNESS. Did not leave?
Mr. Hays. Leave the Los Angeles area.

The WITNESS. I was in California as stated here the full time that the voucher shows. That is what I am subscribing to.

Mr. DICKINSON. You were in Los Angeles and that area during that time and did not leave?

The WITNESS. The full time that the voucher subscribes to. That is exactly what I am saying. Mr. DICKINSON. And did not leave. That is the point.

The WITNESS. I would not say I did not leave because I was traveling around in California. Mr. DICKINSON. In the State, I mean. The WITNESS. The same thing as the voucher calls for.

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. You know Miss Swann and Miss Lewis, who are on the committee?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. They were in Miami and traveled the same date as those tickets, those particular tickets.

A. They were?
Q. I am saying they were.
X. I see.

Q. If you had been on the plane you would have known whether or not they were with you, would you not?

A. You mean to California?
Q. To Miami.
Ă. I went to California. My voucher calls for
Q. You would have known?

Ả. My voucher calls for me to be in Los Angeles. This is the only thing I am testifying to.

Mr. Hays. Mr. Clark, would you be willing to say you were not in Miami on any of those 5 days?

The WITNESS. Mr. Congressman, I am willing to say everything positive and nothing negative.

By Mr. TAYLER: Q. Will you answer the question? A. I consider what you are asking me negative. Mr. Hays. I will put it another way. Were you in Miami at any time during these 5 days?

The WITNESS. I think you asked me before if I was in Los Angeles. I told you I was in Los Angeles.

Mr. Hays. All that time so you could not possibly have been in Miami?

The WITNESS. Your interpretation, being a Congressman, is much better than mine.

Mr. Hays. Mr. Clark, I think the record should show we are trying to help you.

The WITNESS. I am so grateful for the help you are giving.

Mr. TAYLER. I think the record is clear where he was now, Mr. Chairman.

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