Mr. HaYs. Mr. Clark, nobody in this committee is trying to harass

you. We are just trying to find out possibly

The WITNESS. I don't believe you would.

Mr. HAYS (continuing). If somebody else used this ticket and used your name, to make it perfectly clear.

You state you were in Los Angeles on those dates?

The WITNESS. I am stating that whatever dates that I have signed-

Mr. Hays. Hand him back that paper and have him state the dates.

The WITNESS. Whatever dates are here, from March 16 to March 20 that says I was in Los Angeles, Calif., that is where I was. This is what I am testifying to-not to something else I know nothing about. Mr. HAYS. In other words, if you were in Los Angeles you couldn't possibly have flown from Miami or to?

The WITNESS. That is your interpretation.

By Mr. TAYLER:

Q. Did you or did you not make the trip?

A. I made the trip I signed for.

Q. The trip from Miami to New York?

A. I made the trip that I signed here for.

Q. You didn't make the trip from Miami to New York?

A. This trip. This is exactly the trip.

1

Mr. NEDZI. It should be pointed out it is possible to travel across the country these days in 4 hours; we are not badgering you, so I say to the witness it is a proper question. This is possible to have made those trips as well as have been in Los Angeles on the days you signed.

The WITNESS. I don't consider the gentleman badgering me. I don't consider anything. I am testifying to a positive thing and not something I know nothing about. I am testifying to the fact that I was in Los Angeles, Calif., the date that I subscribed to, the dates that I signed to, and that is what I am testifying to.

Mr. NEDZI. Were you in Miami?

The WITNESS. Is it possible for me to be in Miami and Los Angeles? Mr. NEDZI. Yes.

The WITNESS. That is your interpretation, then.

Mr. HaYs. Just a minute. I think we can clarify this.

Mr. Clark, the voucher shows that you were in Los Angeles on

those 5 days.

The WITNESS. Correct, sir.

Mr. HAYS. Were you in Los Angeles all those 5 days?
The WITNESS. Yes, sir.

Mr. HAYS. I don't see we need any more questions.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:

Q. Were you there with Congressman Hawkins those 5 days? A. As I said, Congressman Hawkins went with me on the same plane that I went on. I attended the two or three meetings with Congressman Hawkins but I was busy, very busy, with the people, and so forth, so I was not necessarily with him all this time that he was there. I think I came back before he did.

Mr. HaYs. You think you came back before he did?

The WITNESS. I am not sure. I am not testifying as to Congressman Hawkins.

Mr. HAYS. I understand.

The WITNESS. I don't know when he came back. I believe I came back before he did. It was not necessary for me to report to him when I came back. I thought when I had finished what I was doing I could come back. I came back.

By Mr. TAYLER:

Q. May all three portions of the ticket be marked "Clark No. 2"?

(The above-referred-to document was marked "Clark Exhibit

No. 2.")

Mr. DICKINSON. Did I understand you to say you were there from

the 16th to the 20th and did not leave during that time?

The WITNESS. Did not leave?

Mr. Hays. Leave the Los Angeles area.

The WITNESS. I was in California as stated here the full time that the voucher shows. That is what I am subscribing to.

Mr. DICKINSON. You were in Los Angeles and that area during that time and did not leave?

The WITNESS. The full time that the voucher subscribes to. That is exactly what I am saying.

Mr. DICKINSON. And did not leave. That is the point.

The WITNESS. I would not say I did not leave because I was traveling around in California.

Mr. DICKINSON. In the State, I mean.

The WITNESS. The same thing as the voucher calls for.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:

Q. You know Miss Swann and Miss Lewis, who are on the committee?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. They were in Miami and traveled the same date as those tickets,

those particular tickets.

A. They were?

Q. I am saying they were.

A. I see.

Q. If you had been on the plane you would have known whether or

not they were with you, would you not?

A. You mean to California?

Q. To Miami.

A. I went to California. My voucher calls for

Q. You would have known?

A. My voucher calls for me to be in Los Angeles. This is the only thing I am testifying to.

Mr. HaYs. Mr. Clark, would you be willing to say you were not in Miami on any of those 5 days?

The WITNESS. Mr. Congressman, I am willing to say everything positive and nothing negative.

By Mr. TAYLER:

Q. Will you answer the question?

A. I consider what you are asking me negative.

Mr. HAYS. I will put it another way. Were you in Miami at any time during these 5 days?

The WITNESS. I think you asked me before if I was in Los Angeles. I told you I was in Los Angeles.

Mr. HAYS. All that time so you could not possibly have been in Miami?

The WITNESS. Your interpretation, being a Congressman, is much better than mine.

Mr. HaYs. Mr. Clark, I think the record should show we are trying to help you.

The WITNESS. I am so grateful for the help you are giving.

Mr. TAYLER. I think the record is clear where he was now, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Hays. I believe we have airline tickets showing that you did go to Los Angeles on the day you said and return on the day you said. We checked that. Therefore your veracity on that is not in question in any way, shape, or form.

The WITNESS. I was concerned with my fellow bald-headed gentleman that he was questioning my honesty. That kind of riled me a bit. I don't want anyone to question me that way.

Mr. TAYLER. I expect you to answer questions put to you by counsel and committee members. That is all. I make no imputation on your veracity or character.

The WITNESS. But in the words of Mr. Hays this morning—— Mr. TAYLER. I would like him to restrict himself to answering the questions.

The WITNESS. I appreciate the words of Mr. Hays very much, no one would impugn anyone's motives. When you question me as to whether I have used it for my personal benefit, and you asked me two or three times, this to me was that you had some doubt in your mind as to my honesty. I don't play second fiddle to anyone as far as honesty is concerned, sir.

Mr. TAYLER. What is in my mind is beside the point. We are after the facts.

By Mr. TAYLER:

Q. Sir, I will show you an Eastern Airlines transportation receipt dated March 28, 1965, indicating it was bought in flight on that date on the New York-Washington shuttle, and it bears what purports to be your signature in the upper right-hand corner. I ask you if you made that trip on that date?

A. It has three names, my name and another name.

Q. Is that your signature in the upper left-hand corner?

A. I am not certain as to whether or not it is.

Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I told you that the audit indicates that on the same flight on that day the records show a Miss Aurora Harris on the flight and a Don Anderson on the flight, and a Lillian Upshur on the flight? Were you on that flight with those people on that day? Do you recall?

A. This is 1965?

Q. That is right.

A. I don't remember it and I am not sure of the signature.
Q. You don't know whether that is your signature?

A. I don't.

Q. You don't know whether you made that flight?

A. I don't remember the people that you are mentioning to me.

Q. Do you remember going to New York at that time?

A. On that particular date I don't.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:

Q. Have you ever made a trip to New York with Miss Upshur?

A. I believe I have.

Q. On how many occasions?

A. I don't remember because over the years I have made trips with

Miss Upshur.

Q. During the last 2 years?

A. I don't really know how many times that I have made trips. There weren't many.

Q. Have you ever made a trip with Mr. Anderson to New York? A. Sir, I believe in one of the instances, possibly in the plumbers' strike, Mr. Anderson as an attorney may have gone with us. This is not exactly certain.

Q. When was the plumbers' strike?

A. I believe it was 1965.

Q. What time of year?

A. I really don't remember the exact time.

Q. Would it have been around March 20?

A. At least in my mind I think it was in the cold weather.

Q. That would be the fall?

A. Not necessarily. It could have been the winter.

Q. Would it be March 28?

A. It could be.

Q. It could have been.

Did you ever take a flight to New York with Miss Dargans?
A. No.

Q. If she was on the flight with you would you have recalled it? A. The reason I say no is because I just know that Miss Dargans is not the easiest person in the world not to see.

Q. Then if you had made a flight with Miss Dargans on that date you would have recalled it, would you not?

A. As I say, I don't remember having made any flight with Miss Dargans.

Q. If I told you that the committee has testimony that a ticket in Miss Dargans' name was on that same date as yours you certainly would have recalled being with her, would you not?

A. I don't know of her testimony you have. What I am saying in connection with the question that you ask me, which is whether I went on a flight with Miss Dargans, I say I don't remember going on any flight with Miss Dargans. This is the answer.

Q. So if you are alleged to have been on a plane with Miss Dargans on March 28, 1965, you would say somebody is in error?

A. I wouldn't say somebody was in error. I would say to them I don't remember going on any flight with Miss Dargans.

By Mr. TAYLER:

Q. I thought you said you would remember if you had taken a flight.

A. I say I don't remember having gone on any flight with Miss Dargans.

Q. To the best of your knowledge you were not on a flight with Miss Dargans on that day or any other day. Is that right?

A. I don't remember ever having gone on a flight with Miss Dargans.

Q. Is that the best knowledge you have?
A. That is the best knowledge I have.

Mr. HAYS. Do you know whether or not Miss Dargans ever traveled by air?

The WITNESS. I have no knowledge of that.

Mr. TAYLER. May I ask that ticket be marked "Clark's Exhibit No. 3"?