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A. Have I checked in and out? I don't think I understand exactly. Mr. HAYS. I think what he means is this: Have you paid for the room monthly and not had any rebate for the times you weren't in it? The WITNESS. No, sir.

Mr. HAYS. Like checking in and out of a hotel?

The WITNESS. I think I had about five places that I have lived since I have been here. The first couple places the people would hold the place for me. Then I got a place where they wouldn't do it and then I was no longer able to do it.

Mr. HAYS. When they held it for you you paid them for only the nights you stayed there?

The WITNESS. No, sir. I paid by the month and I had to pay by the month.

By Mr. TAYLER:

Q. For how long during the past 2 years have you had a room that you paid for by the month? Was it during the entire time or part of the time?

A. In the last 2 years I have been here in Washington, prior to that it was just month to month, maybe a month in New York, a month here, and so on. In the last two years I think I more or less have been in Washington semipermanent, and I have had two places.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:

Q. I am confused. May I pursue a line of questioning?

As I understand your testimony you have been on the investigating staff for five and a half to six years.

A. Correct, sir.

Q. You have been the chief investigator for a period of how long? A. Chief investigator, I would say, for approximately 3 years, 2 or 3 years.

Q. As chief investigator what did you and the chairman consider your headquarters? Was it Washington or New York?

A. I really don't know that answer, sir. It really was never defined to me. Even the income tax, I raised that with them. I

don't know

Q. I am not interested in that. What did you and the chairman consider as your headquarters?

A. The chairman I don't think ever discussed it. I didn't know.

Q. Where did you spend

A. I have a home in New York and I have a place where I pay rent in Washington. I consider my home in New York.

By Mr. TAYLER:

Q. Your permanent home is New York?
A. My permanent home is in New York.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:

Q. Where did you perform the majority of your services to the committee, in New York or Washington?

A. In Washington. Not only in Washington but throughout.

Q. Just answer the question. What percentage of your time did you spend in Washington?

A. I really don't know. The greatest proportion of it?

Q. The greater portion of it, 90 percent?

A. I really don't know.

Q. You are the only one who does know. Think it over and tell us. A. I don't know what proportion of the time because the type of work I have done never has been on the basis of time or specifics. I really don't know what proportion of the time.

When I go on vacation, like I am at the present time, which always has been when Congress adjourns, that's the only time I go on vacation. I then go to New York.

Mr. DICKINSON. Can you give us your best judgment?

The WITNESS. In what?

Mr. DICKINSON. As to the answer to the question.

The WITNESS. The time?

Mr. DICKINSON. Yes.

The WITNESS. I couldn't.

By Mr. TAYLER:

Q. Do you spend more than half your time when you are spending official duties here or New York?

A. More of my time here?

Q. Do you spend more than half of your working time here in Washington?

A. Of course.

Q. Do you spend three-quarters of your time here?

A. I don't know.

Q. Somewhere between a half and three-quarters?

A. Specifics I couldn't tell you-half, three-quarters, or what have

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Q. When you are in New York what office do you work out of? A. I don't have an office. I don't have a specific office where I work out of New York. It is a question of whatever the issue is. That is where we go.

Q. Are you saying that when you are in New York, which apparently is about 50 percent of your time, you work from your home?

A. I don't know, No. 1, if it is 50 percent. When I go to New York I go to New York on issues, on problems. If so, for example, if it is a strike situation, whatever it is, I go wherever the problem is. Q. You maintain a diary of your travels, do you?

A. A diary, no.

Q. Do you have any personal record of the time you stay in New York?

A. Nothing more than whatever is required in terms of report, and I make that.

Q. You mentioned something about Internal Revenue. Did you prepare anything for Internal Revenue showing how much time you spend in New York and how much time here?

A. No. I questioned it at one time because I thought at one time the fact that I had to pay double expenses, because it is double on me, with the place in New York and a place here, food in New York and food here, I thought that I would have been able to have gotten an allowance from the Internal Revenue Service. They told me that

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they would not allow it. This is how I happened to raise that. It was rather difficult on me.

Q. I can understand that over the past 5% or 6 years it might be difficult to evaluate the amount of time you spent in Washington and that in New York, but during the current year, 1966, where did you spend the majority of your time?

A. The majority of my time, as I saw it—

Q. In 1966.

A. The majority of the time was always either here in Washingtonyou are shaking your head. I don't know what you are asking me. Q. Not either here in Washington or someplace else.

A. As I testified to you earlier, my position as the investigator required me to do quite a bit of traveling. When you ask about the majority of my time, if you say working out of Washington I would say a great proportion of my time is here in the Nation's Capital. But it did not necessarily mean that I was personally here because it required me going other places. That is what I meant.

Q. Let us limit our discussion to 1966. Aside from going to New York on official business or otherwise, in what other areas have you taken trips?

A. California.

Q. How long were you in California?

A. I was in California, I think, twice. One time, and this is the best of my recollection, I don't remember exactly, I believe one time I was in California for about maybe 4 or 5 days. It may have been a week.

Another time I was in California, I believe, also around the same time. This was during the Watts situation, and so forth.

Q. Was this during 1966?

A. At one time 1965 and one time in 1966.

Q. I am just talking about 1966.

A. There was a 1966 time when I went to California.

Q. For from 4 to 7 days?

A. I really don't remember.

Q. What other trips have you taken outside of going to New York? A. Outside of Washington?

Q. Yes.

A. Florida, Ohio

Q. You say you went to Florida?

A. Yes.

Q. When did you go to Florida?

A. I don't remember the exact date.

Q. Approximately?

A. I really couldn't give you the dates of any of them.
Q. In the early part of the year, spring, summer, or fall?

A. I would say during maybe the middle part of the year.

Q. About the spring or summer?

A. Approximately.

Q. For how long a period?

A. A day or so.

Q. One or two days?

A. Yes.

Q. You mentioned someplace else. Did you mention Akron?
A. I said Ohio.

Q. Where did you go in Ohio?

A. Cleveland.

Q. When you went to Cleveland what part of the year was that? A. I really don't remember exactly the time. I was in Cleveland twice or three times.

Q. This year?

A. I believe it was this year.

Q. Three times this year?

A. I believe so.

Q. For how long a period of time?

A. May also have been a day or so.

Q. Where else did you go to? In Florida, was that Miami you went to?

A. Yes.

Q. Where else besides California, Ohio,

A. Texas, Fort Worth, Dallas. I was also in another city. There was a third one that I can't remember.

Q. Fort Worth and Dallas are right next to one another. How long were you there?

A. Between the three cities I believe I was-it may have been, also, from 3 to 4 days.

Q. What time of the year was this trip?

A. I believe to the best of my recollection that was about a year ago. Q. I am just asking for 1966, Mr. Clark.

A. I don't remember having gone to Texas in 1966.

Q. Let us limit it to 1966 now. Are there any other trips?

A. You would have to refresh me.

Q. I am asking you.

A. I don't remember.

Q. Would you say that the California trip, the Florida trip, and the Ohio trip were possibly the only trips you took this year?

A. If you say possibly it could be possible. I am not saying this conclusively.

Q. In the California trip who went with you?

A. Congressman Hawkins.

Q. Was he the only one who went with you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You were together all during the trip?

A. Not necessarily. We weren't together the whole trip.

Q. Did you meet him out there?

A. We went on the same plane-but work I had to do—we didn't stay together.

Q. Was he out there in connection with the committee business, also?

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Q. Any member of your family?
A. No.

Q. Where did you go in Miami?

over.

A. There was a migrant problem there with the people who came We met with them. I couldn't tell you exactly where that specific spot was. We had one meeting there which had the AFLCIO, and a group of people there.

Q. In the Cleveland, Ohio, trip, who went with you?

A. No one that I can remember.

Q. You were by yourself?

A. Yes.

Q. Were you accompanied by any member of your family?
A. No, sir.

Q. Nobody from the committee?

A. No, sir, not that I can remember.

Q. From these three trips which apparently are the only ones you can recall during 1966

A. I wouldn't say that, Mr. Congressman.

Q. Can you recall others?

A. I am trying to be as frank as I can. My work calls for me traveling so much, just as sometimes when you ask me questions it reminds me of certain things. I can't remember.

Q. Most of your travel is between the District and New York City. What I was endeavoring to obtain from you is the amount of time that you spend in Washington. You have related that you were traveling to various parts of the country so much that you couldn't say, but here you have three trips that you have taken during 1966. A. Yes.

Q. Including those three trips how much of your time would you say you spend in Washington?

A. I would say quite a good bit of my time.

Q. More than 50 percent?

A. An awful lot.

Q. More than 75 percent?

A. You are again giving me figures.

Q. I am just suggesting.

A. Figures I do not know.

Q. I would like you to give it to us.

A. If I could I surely would, but I don't know.

Q. In claiming per diem expense would you use New York as your headquarters or Washington?

A. Washington.

Q. Always?

A. As far as I-yes.

Q. Between New York and Washington did you use your personal

automobile on occasion?

A. I did.

Q. How frequently would you do that?

A. I don't remember really. You are talking now still 1966?

Q. 1966 is all I am talking about.

A. I don't really remember how many times. There were times when I did use my automobile.

Q. Do you drive your car with a great degree of regularity on weekends coming to and from?

A. Washington?

Q. Yes.

A. Not too much. Most of the time when I go on my own I do drive my car.

Q. In other words you mean when you travel with somebody else to New York you leave the car here?

A. No.

Q. You just said when you go on your own.

A. I said when I go on my own.

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