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Q: You hed from ect, sir. cay that popothetical chairman rman has do

with various problems, strikes, and all of this sort of thing, numerous amount of things I am involved in.

Q. Under whose supervision do you work in the performance of your duties?

A. The committee, the chairman, and the committee as a whole. Q. Who gives you your investigative assignments?

A. I get them sometimes from the chairman. I get them sometimes from the chairman by and with consent of other Congressmen, and requests from other Congressmen that I go and look into various matters, and the chairman has said—“Give it to Clark.” Then the Congressman from the particular area, whoever was interested in something being looked into, would be the person who requested it, and that is how I come about it.

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. You are the chief investigator for the standing committee as distinguished from a subcommittee. Is that correct?

A. That is correct, sir. Mr. Hays. Would you say that you have on occasion worked for subcommittees? I will ask you a hypothetical question.

Has it ever happened, for example, that the chairman calls you in and says, “Mr. Dent, Mr. Holland, or some other chairman has a task they would like to have you perform. You go see them.” Do you do that?

The WITNESS. Yes.

Mr. Hays. In other words, you work not only for the full committee but on occasion for a subcommittee?

The WITNESS. Wherever and whenever I was called upon to go and whatever had to be done. This is what I did. I never particularly or specifically questioned at whose direction. If they said “We want you to go to this place” I went and assumed it was OK because there was no question.

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. You would have a specific assignment if you were going some place?

A. More or less Then there were many times, numerous amount of times, that I received complaints and requests and things that were not received through the chairman or through another Congressman. Perhaps it was a followup on something that we had done. I would make a statement or send a statement that I had gotten a request, that I felt was important, to go to this place and check up on it. I went on this basis. If there was no objection to it I would go.

By Mr. TAYLER: Q. Do you usually file a report with someone after you complete an investigative assignment?

A. You say usually. I have filed many reports and there have been times when I didn't file any reports because sometimes it was a matter of followup on some of the things I had already done. There were some investigations and things of this sort, times you didn't put them in print. You told the people what happened.

Q. When you filed a written report did you usually file it with the chairman of the committee?

A. Well, I filed it. I filed it with the committee and I just assumed that the chairman of the committee was the one who got the report.

Q. Did you have to travel in connection with the performance of your duties as chief investigator?

A. Oh, yes.
(Mr. Devine is now present.)

Q. My questions all relate from the period January 3, 1965, to the present, the 89th Congress.

Did you have an airline travel credit card?
A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. Did you travel by air?
A. Many times I did.

Q. What procedure did you follow in order to obtain your airline ticket when you were going to travel on committee business?

A. Well, most

Q. Please wait until I finish the question. We will help the reporter if you do.

A. I will be happy.

Q. How would you go about obtaining the airline ticket when you were going to travel?

A. From whomever I got the request, I, in turn, would also get the request and the ticket. If it was a question where I thought that some investigation should be done I would say that I believe I should go to this place, and therefore I requested the ticket. I was either given a ticket or they would tell me to use this card and get a ticket. This is the way it was done.

Q. They would tell you what?

A. I would either get a ticket or give me a card to purchase the ticket with.

Q. You mean a credit card?
A. A credit card.

Q. From whom did you obtain credit cards in order to purchase your ticket?

A. I received the credit card from the staff director-
Q. Who is that?
A. Mr. Derrickson.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:
Q. Mention names rather than generalizing.

A. Mr. DERRICKSON. I received a staff card from him. Maybe on some occasions there may have been I received a card from Mr. Stone.

(Mr. Dickinson is now present.)

A. There were times I would get a ticket and there was no question of a card. I would get a ticket.

By Mr. TAYLER: Q. You say there were times you would get the ticket and there is no question of the card, you would purchase it with your own funds and get reimbursed?

A. No.
Q. What did you mean by that?

A. There were a couple of times I purchased a ticket, I believe, and was reimbursed. When I said I would get the ticket, when the assignment would come through they would send me a ticket.

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Q. From whom would you usually receive your ticket in those instances?

A. No particular individual. The secretary would send over to my desk a ticket and I would have a ticket. As I said I never questioned it. This is a ticket and I looked to see that it is for the place that I have been asked to go to or that I have requested to go to, and this is what it would be.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:
Q. Who is the secretary you refer to?

A. No specific one. Sometimes it would come from Stone. Sometimes the ticket would come from one of the girls in the office. There was no specific person who would give me a ticket.

By Mr. TAYLER: Q. Did you ever obtain a ticket which had been purchased on Mrs. Dargans' credit card, do you know?

A. I don't remember really all the credit cards because frankly I wasn't interested.

Q. There were times when Mr. Derrickson and Mr. Stone lent you their credit cards?

A. That is right.

Q. So that you could go where—to the Capitol airline ticket office and purchase your ticket?

A. Yes, and then there were times when the card was used, for example, on the plane. We were able to use it that way.

Q. So you actually borrowed Mr. Derrickson's and Mr. Stone's cards on occasions when you took the cards with you on the trips?

A. Yes, I took the cards with me on the trip. That is correct.

Q. To whom did you report back to indicate the use you had made of the card?

A. Well, when I would come back in some instances I would give them back to whomever I got them from.

Q. Would you turn in a copy of the transportation receipt?
A. No, not necessarily.

Q. How did you account for the use you had made of the card when you would borrow these other person's cards?

A. Through my report which I would submit that I went to such and such a place. There was no one who asked me give me an itemized statement with reference to the card. This is what happened. I just returned the card back.

Q. Did you ever have to fill out a form, an internal committee form, called the T-4 which you signed for receipt of the airline ticket?

A. There were a couple times that I did fill out forms. I don't know really the numbers of the forms but there were times when I did fill out forms for cards, also.

Q. You used these airline tickets only when you were traveling on official committee business. Is that right?

A. Correct, sir.

Q. Did you submit expense vouchers for per diem and related travel expenses whenever you traveled on committee business?

A. Not always.

Q. Will you describe the circumstances under which you would make an official trip and not submit an expense voucher?

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A. For example, there were many instances I can tell you, times during the plumbers strike, the transit strike, the bus strike

By Mr. O'CONNOR:
Q. What area do you refer to now?
À. New York.
Q. All New York?

^. When I would be going to New York I would not, New York being my home and when I was in New York I would not fill out a voucher. When I was there, if I was there one night or two nights, I, thank God, was able to stay home for a change and that is what happened.

By Mr. TAYLER: Q. Mr. Clark, the audit of the travel of your committee, particularly your travel, reflects that during the period January 3, 1965, to September 30, 1966, you made 35 trips between the District of Columbia and New York for which you claimed no per diem. Were all of those trips on committee business? A. I don't know if I made 35.

Q. Every trip that you traveled and got a ticket purchased with Government funds, did you make that trip for the committee?

A. Let me get your question.

Q. Did you ever go to New York on a ticket purchased with Government funds when you were just on a personal trip of your own?

A. If I used the ticket for my own personal visit?
Q. Yes.
A. No. I didn't think you would ask me that question.

Q. Did you ever make a trip to New York for which you did claim per diem?

A. Yes.

Q. How did you distinguish between the occasions when you went to New York

A. Because

Q. Just a moment, sir. When you went to New York on business and you claimed per diem and those occasions when you went to New York and you didn't claim per diem?

A. I would like to apologize for being a little hasty in speaking because you did ask me not to but I did get a little concerned when you questioned, I thought, and I assume I thought wrong, I thought you were questioning my honesty when you said if I used it for my personal business.

Q. If you just answer the question and we get along.

A. I wanted that clear. You asked me if I used the cards for my personal benefit. No, Is that the question?

Q. That wasn't the question. (Question read by reporter.)

A. I don't believe, sir, that there were many occasions when I went to New York and claimed per diem. I don't believe there were many occasions. I don't remember all of them surrounding this. There may have been one or two. If so they were probably in the week when I went, during the week when I went to a particular place, did not get home, came back. I think this occurred maybe during the bus strike because I went to New York. I think it was, two or three times during this particular time.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:
Q. When was the bus strike?

A. If it was toward the weekend I made no per diem in reference to it.

Q. When did the bus strike occur?
A. I really don't remember, frankly.
Q. Approximately?
A. I think it has been almost a year now.
Q. Spring, fall, summer?

A. I know it was cold weather. I really don't remember. I really don't remember. I don't remember the date when the bus strike was.

Q. You recall claiming per diem for that trip?
A. I didn't say that one. I gave him an example.
Q. We want to be specific, Mr. Clark.
A. I want to be truthful, not specific.
Q. I want specifics, also.

A. I want to be truthful. I couldn't say to you exactly which time it was. I gave him an example. But I do believe that possibly there were one or two occasions when I did ask per diem.

Q. What was the distinguishing factor as to whether you claimed per diem or did not claim per diem?

A. This is what I explained. If I went Monday, Tuesday, in the middle of the week, for example, and if I was in conference, and as I gave him an example, I went before and came back, not having even gone home, I made a request for expenses. That is because I did incur expenses.

If I went, for example, on an occasion when I was able to stay there and come back, I considered myself saving committee funds.

Q. Do you maintain a residence or apartment in New York?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where is it?
A. 120 West 138th Street.

By Mr. TAYLER:
Q. Is your family there?
A. Yes, sir.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:
Q. Do you maintain a residence in Washington?
A. Temporary residence while I am working here.

By Mr. TAYLER:
Q. A hotel?
A. No, a room.
Q. Why do you say it is temporary?

A. Because I am working here. When I go to New York or when I am away from here I go home.

Q. Do you rent this room all the time, though, this room in Washington?

A. Not necessarily all the time. I have had at least three or four when I was able to get them. Now I have a pretty permanent one.

Q. During the past 2 years have you checked in and out of the room as you came to Washington and left Washington, or have you had the room rented all the time?

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