Q. That was at the chairman's recommendation? A. That is right. That is right. Q. And in addition to the five tickets that were picked out A. He was here then when I did this. Q. Beg pardon? A. He was here when I did this. Q. Did he go over it with you? A. Yes, sir. Q. There were five of them representing the Bimini trip. You and your wife, Miss Huff, Mr. Powell, and Miss Givens? A. Yes. Q. What are the other two trips? A. I don't know. He just said to check these off. Q. How did you know what trips they were? A. The chairman told me, Mr. O'Connor, to do it. Q. Weren't there some vouchers attached or something? A. I don't know. He checked them off and told me to do so. Q. At random? A. He looked at it and said, "Check these off and have them reimbursed by personal check" and I did that. I was following instructions. Q. Didn't you tell him that the 112 A. Mr. Powell can read. He read that bill. He read that. He said, "Check these off." Q. I just wondered what mechanics he went through as to selecting them. There are quite a number of Stone charges in there. A. I know that too. Q. But you didn't make all that travel? A. Absolutely not. Q. Who made the travel, do you know? A. I don't know. I gave the tickets to the chairman. Q. Do you have any information which would indicate other personal travel in connection with this particular statement that was reviewed by Mr. Powell? A. No, I do not. Q. You feel that is all the personal travel, those items that he checked off? A. I would assume that is what he had in mind, but I don't know. Q. You were pretty close to the chairman. You traveled with him a lot? Q. I am certain the committee feels you have had many conversations with him concerning the issuance of airline tickets and others? A. Yes. Q. Could you relate to us some of those conversations? A. What conversations? Q. About the issuance of airline tickets in the name of staff, being traveled on by other people. it. A. No conversations. He would just tell me to get the tickets. Q. You must have, over the past year, had some discussion about A. Discussion how? Q. Between you and Mr. Powell as to the propriety of it, as to whether it is right. A. No. Q. What about the travel of Miss Huff? She wasn't performing any committee services? A. I didn't discuss it with them. That is not my——— Q. You must have had some conversations with him about it? A. No, we really didn't. We really-you don't know Mr. Powell. You don't discuss these things with him. I don't care how close you are to him. There are some things you just don't discuss with him. Mr. DICKINSON. You were a little uncertain as to what type of conversations we were talking about. Was there any conversation about the time you bought 20 tickets at one time? That was unusual. The WITNESS. No, he said, "Get these tickets" and I got them. By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. You are sure Mr. Powell wouldn't actually put the names down? When you select the names of the staff A. I wouldn't select the names of the staff, no. Q. He would tell you in each instance the name to put on those tickets? A. Yes. Why would I pick certain names. Mr. DICKINSON. That is what we are trying to find out. The WITNESS. Why would I pick certain names and not other names? By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. Your name was on many of them. It seems to me you would have raised some objection, particularly when you are supposed to be traveling and you aren't around. A. I wasn't able to travel. Quite a few Congressmen use tickets in somebody else's name. If you buy a ticket, you can use that ticket. There is nothing illegal about traveling in another person's name. Q. Now, there are five tickets that you have obtained on your credit card in which the travel has not been used on them. A. Yes, I understand that. You told me that. A. I haven't the slightest idea, Mr. O'Connor. I called Eastern Airlines and talked to Miss Sisk and Mr. Garelick's office, Eastern Airlines executives, and I got the distinct impression in talking to you last Thursday that you might have believed that somebody cashed these tickets in and got money back. Miss Sisk said their employees know it is illegal to give cash for charged tickets and their jobs would be in jeopardy if they did that and under no circumstances can an Eastern Airlines employee or any employee give money back for a ticket charged on an air travel card. Q. Were you present when Mr. Powell and Miss Huff refunded $197 back to the committee for some transaction in July or June? A. No, I wasn't. I didn't know they had done that. Q. You know nothing about that? A. No. Q. I show you a voucher dated January 12, 1966, claiming per diem while in Miami, December 21, 22, and 23, 1965. I ask you to examine that. The committee has been unable to determine how you got to Miami in that instance. Do you recall your trip down? A. Yes. Q. How did you go? A. I flew down. Q. Do you recall purchasing your ticket? A. I don't recall purchasing this particular ticket, but I flew down. I couldn't have got there any other way. Mr. HAYS. Who did you go with? The WITNESS. By myself. I remember I was not happy about going before Christmas. Mr. HAYS. Did anybody hand you a ticket by any chance, some staff member, or something? I The WITNESS. I just can't remember. I know I went down. remember I flew down and I was very unhappy about going at this particular time. There is no ticket for me on that date. By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. We have been unable to locate a ticket in your name reflecting the travel. A. I certainly would travel in my own name, I know that. I am sure there must be a ticket somewhere. Mr. DICKINSON. You have bought tickets for many others in your name and is it possible that somebody bought one for you in their name? The WITNESS. No, sir; I would have purchased the ticket myself. I remember that trip I had to go down on and I was unhappy about it because it was so close to Christmas. Mr. HAYS. Do you recall any of the details of the trip? The WITNESS. Very definitely. Mr. HAYS. How did you happen to go? Did the chairman ask you to go. The WITNESS. Yes, because we had gotten strong complaints on the exclusion of Negroes in the poverty program. He asked me to go down and take a look at it. I protested but he said, "Do this right now." I said, "All right" and I went down. By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. I show you this voucher No. 7304, and it is rembursement for 1 day in New York City, April 7, 1965, April 8, 1965. We have been unable to verify your travel on that date to New York City. A. Do you mean there is no ticket? Q. We have been unable to verify a ticket or otherwise. A. I definitely flew in my own name. Q. A voucher also indicates travel on April 24 and April 27. April 24 and 27. A. There is no ticket on that either? Q. We have been unable to verify travel to New York City on those days. A. You have no ticket for April 7 and 8, April 9 and 12, and April 24 and 27? (Authorized by House Resolution 139, approved 2/24/65, 89th Congress) AMOUNT Unit price Dellars 16.00 48.00 3-50 50 56.00 av TOTAL Where a voucher is certified by a corporation or company, the name of the person writing the corporate or company name, as well as the capacity in which he signs, must appear. Example: "Chicago Edison Company, per John Smith," Secretary or Treasurer, or member of firm, as the case may be. Q. That is right. A. You have no tickets at all on those days? Q. We have been unable to locate them. A. No tickets at all? Q. No tickets at all, that is right. A. In other words, you have no tickets for any person on these dates? Q. Did you travel under somebody else's name? A. No; I never did. I traveled under my own name always. Q. None for Stone? A. Do you have any other tickets for these days? A. I traveled in my own name as far as I know. Q. I am asking if you traveled under any other name? A. No. I am sure there must be tickets for me. Mr. HAYS. Could I ask a question there? This is a trip to New York? Mr. O'CONNOR. Yes. Mr. HAYS. It is possible you went up on the shuttle? (Authorized by House Resolution x 139, approved 2/24/65, 89th Congress) I CERTIFY that the above bill is correct and just, and that payment therefor has not been received. *SIGN ORIGINAL ONLY (Bill must be completely filled in before certi fication by payee, and there must not be any erasure or alteration whatever.) TOTAL 1 50625 64 00 Payee By I CERTIFY that the above articles have been received in good conditioned in the quality and quantity above specified, or the services performed as stated, and that they are in accordance with the orders therefor that the prices charged are just, reamable, and in accordance with agreement. APPROVED avec MAY 19 '65 United States at Washington, D. C., in favor of payee named above. Where a voucher is certified by a corporation or company, the name of the person writing the corporate or company name, as well as the capacity in which he signs, must appear. Example: "Chicago Edison Company, per John Smith," Secretary or Treasurer, or member of firm, as the case may be. 10-50743-8 OPO |