Colonel MAY. I would say they use ours more than we use theirs, Mr. Roback. I can't think of an instance in recent months or years where we have had occasion to use either State or NASA's circuits. Mr. ROBACK. You haven't leased any Early Bird circuits? Colonel MAY. No. sir. Mr. LEAGUE. No, sir. Colonel MAY. So in the ground-air area domestically, FAA operates everything, and this is all short range. It is VHF for civil air traffic and UHF for what military traffic is handled in the system. On the long-haul oceanic communications side, it is a split between FAA and industry operated. It is all long range and all high frequency, and Mr. League dwelt on that. Mr. ROBACK. You say it is industry operated? Colonel MAY. Yes. The gateway stations that serve the airlines. Mr. ROBACK. Will you explain a little bit just what the relationship is, how that is done, or are you covering that later? Colonel MAY. Yes. The airlines have a company called Aeronautical Radio, Inc., that operates five gateway stations in the United States, that provide the link, the high-frequency link, between the aircraft in flight and through ARINC to our aircraft air route traffic control centers. Mr. ROBACK. In other words, this is a service provided by the airlines for themselves? Is this a profitmaking company or is it a nonprofit company? Mr. LEAGUE. I don't really know, sir. Mr. CONERLY. My understanding is, it is a nonprofit. It is contributed to by all of the airlines to make up the company. Mr. ROBACK. All of the participating major airlines are contributors, and this company is a service organization for the industry? Mr. CONERLY. Yes, sir. Mr. LEAGUE. Yes, sir. Mr. ROBACK. How do you divide the cost of operating this thing? What services in relation to international air flight does the FAA contribute as a public service, free public service? Colonel MAY. It doesn't cost us anything. Mr. ROBACK. For these communications? Mr. ROBACK. But it costs you something for what, your receiving centers, for your own communication centers? Colonel MAY. No; I think I will explain this a little further on, Mr. Roback. Mr. ROBACK. Excuse me. Colonel MAY. I have a chart which will show this relationship in the proper perspective if you will. May I go on? Mr. ROBACK. Surely. Colonel MAY. Our future communications planning on point-topoint long haul side, both domestic and internationally, is that if the NCS should be able to provide FAA with satellite channels we will be most happy to make use of them, providing the cost is competitive. (Referring to chart FAA-3.) FAA's FUTURE COMMUNICATION PLANNING LONG HAUL POINT-TO-POINT Colonel MAY. In short, we have no FAA in-house plans for any point-to-point satellite communications system but should the NCS have it available we will share in the resource just as we do now. Mr. ROBACK. In other words, you don't put a requirement on them for satellite communications, but simply for communications? Colonel MAY. Precisely. Mr. ROBACK. You have a chapter in the long-range-plan book? Colonel MAY. Yes; we do in which we list all of our long-haul and domestic requirements. Mr. ROBACK. And it is up to the NCS to determine which is cheaper and more effective, so far as you are concerned? Colonel MAY. Yes, sir. We are a customer and we take customerto-customer service. Mr. ROBACK. You wouldn't do like NASA and make your own bid to Comsat for voice channels? That is a different kind of a situation? Colonel MAY. In our case there would be no necessity to do so. We contribute to the planning of the NCS and they know our requirements and whatever they can provide they do. Mr. ROBACK. You don't have any, you might say, crucial problems in long haul, you are getting along, and if you can improve the service that is all right with you? You are concerned with satellites mainly in the ground-air? Colonel MAY. Yes, sir. Mr. LEAGUE. Yes, sir. Mr. ROBACK. I mean as a new proposition your interest really is in getting more effective ground-air communications, is that right? Colonel MAY. In a nutshell. As long as the NCS long-haul circuits and domestic circuits meet our basic requirement of no loss in transmission for more than 5 minutes, we are quite pleased, and so far they have measured up to this very well indeed. Aeronautical ground-air is a somewhat different proposition, of course, because we are talking about ground-air contact with aircraft in flight over the United States and in Hawaii and in Alaska. (Referring to chart FAA-4.) Colonel MAY. We are talking about a system here which has a maximum use of about 200 miles from the ground station. Consequently, we can see no real need or application for a satellite for our domestic short-haul air-ground communications. VHF and UHF are doing it very well now. But the oceanic communications requirement is as Mr. League says, an entirely different picture and there we sense an immediate need. (Referring to chart FAA-5.) FAA ACTIONS re; COMMUNICATION SATELLITE FOR AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL • EXTENSIVE IN-HOUSE FEASIBILITY STUDY • CLOSE ASSOCIATION WITH NASA EFFORT • DEC '65 DISCUSSION WITH COMSAT CORP RE POSSIBILITY LEASED SERVICE • INTRODUCTION OF US. VIEWS INTO ICAO FORUM AT EUR-MED MTG/FEB 66 • STATUS OF COMSAT EFFORT • U.S. POSITION FOR ICAO COMOPS MEETING MONTREAL SEPT/OCT 66 (IMPORTANCE) • COORDINATION WITH U.S. AIR CARRIERS (FORMAL re; ICAO POSITION) • COORDINATION WITH FOREIGN AIR CARRIERS (INFORMAL) • PROBLEMS OF INTERNATIONAL COORDINATION • FUNDING • FREQUENCIES • OPERATIONAL CONCEPTS Colonel MAY. We have no question about the feasibility of airground satellite use. In fact, we have been studying it since 1963 in the agency and have no doubt about its feasibility at all. We have been working very closely with NASA and I think you are familiar with the ATS-B program which will give us some technical answers on ground-air communications at VHF frequencies. You are familiar, I think, also, Mr. Roback, with our December 1965 discussion with Comsat in which we asked Comsat to give us their best idea of what could be furnished in the immediate future as a ground-air VHF satellite system across the Atlantic initially and worldwide later. At the European-Mediterranean ICAO meeting in February 1966, we introduced for the first time Mr. ROBACK. ICAO-what is that? Colonel MAY. International Civil Aviation Organization, with headquarters in Montreal. Mr. ROBACK. What is the purpose of that organization? Colonel MAY. It coordinates international air traffic control and many other flying matters with all participating nations. I can't think of a notable exception. At the European-Mediterranean regional meeting of the group in February of this year we introduced a positive U.S. position with respect to the need for satellite communications in the North Atlantic, and it was favorably received, although, of course, they had questions. Now, skipping back to Comsat, Comsat went out to industry-and, incidentally, I think they are prepared to tell you the whole story when they come before you, sir-they went out to industry with a rather tight specification for an air-ground satellite system to operate at VHF frequencies. In this request for proposal they got return of only one proposal, that of the Hughes Corp., which I understand was both priced too high and had some technical inadequacies which could not be resolved. Comsat came back to us a few weeks ago-2 months ago—and told us that they were going to do some more in-house study and in about 4 months would go to industry again with a request for proposal, this time with a somewhat altered specification. It is their expectation to come to us in about 5 months, sir, with a firm proposal for a course of action including firm funding; that is, how much it will cost, which has been another question in our minds. So that is the status of our current negotiations with Comsat. Mr. ROBACK. You won't be able to take any new information to this meeting in September-October 1966 of the ICAO? Colonel MAY. Well, not really with respect to the Comsat proposals, nor had we intended to, sir. Mr. ROBACK. What is the order of cost, what would the FAA have to pay Comsat for a system or one satellite and some kind of operation; do you have any idea, any estimate? Colonel MAY. Yes. Comsat quoted us a ball park figure for annual leased costs some several months ago. It was for the Atlantic coverage. |