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Mr. DAHLIN. Have you been informed of each one of those as they come in or do you consult with the Executive Agent on the inclusion of each separate system?

Mr. O'CONNELL. I do not recall consulting on each and every one. At intervals we get reports that additional systems have been designated by the Manager and Executive Agent, and we generally concur. The listing of the systems is classified confidential. We will furnish it to the committee separately.

LISTING OF NATIONAL GOALS

Mr. DAHLIN. As to the listing of the national goals, is there now an official statement of the national goals listing the U.S. use of the spectrum, that comes from your office?

Mr. O'CONNELL. You have one that comes from my office, and you have a copy of it.

Mr. DAHLIN. Is there coordination between what you have done in that document, and with the FCC work; is that fully coordinated?

Mr. O'CONNELL. This covers only the use of frequencies by the Federal Government. However, it was coordinated with the FCC. They concur with it. This is a Manual of Regulations and Procedures for Radio Frequency Management issued by me. It does have a chapter-chapter 2-on national policies and goals. You might wish to include that chapter in the record.

CATALOG OF COMMUNICATIONS ACTIVITIES

Mr. DAHLIN. The conduct of the catalog, I take it, is a continuing effort. Is that both by contract and inside the Government? How are you running this catalog of Government activities you are trying to achieve?

Mr. O'CONNELL. We do that internally within the Government and put out reports at intervals. This is one area in which very significant progress has been made by our group. Two years ago we were running 17 weeks behind in compiling the assignments to Government agencies. At the present time, I think we are about 1 week behind, is that right?

Mr. PLUMMER. At the close of the particular volume, it is about 6 weeks until we get it to the printer. There are built-in time elements that you cannot beat by very much.

NEED FOR NCS COMMAND AND CONTROL DECISIONS

Mr. DAHLIN. On page 35 of your statement, at the bottom, you refer-with respect to the NCS again-to fundamental command and control decisions that need to be made. Are those the same matters you were talking about before, with respect to what is policy and what is operational decision, or are you referring to other issues here?

Mr. O'CONNELL. I am referring to other matters there.

Mr. DAHLIN. Do you mean by command control decisions as to who is running the NCS and how, or do you mean by that how the agencies under that will organize their command and control?

Mr. O'CONNELL. How they will organize and how the operation will be managed and actually operated. We have run into this problem

a great number of times. In North Africa we had this problem, in Europe we had this problem, in Japan we had this problem-it is very difficult to run a long-lines system when there is a large number of entities making intermediate decisions as to how the system shall be run. The A.T. & T. has found this to be true, and has organized, therefore, the Long Lines Division of the A.T. & T. Co., which is separately operated. They have very well-developed, highly standardized practices, policies, and assignments of responsibility for the operation of that system. This is very difficult to do when you have, let us say, 47 different organizations doing the actual operation of these systems.

INTERCONNECTION OF NCS AND STATE SYSTEMS

Mr. DAHLIN. On page 38, you refer to the question of interconnection of NCS and State systems. Does this bear on the problem of using switching and other arrangements to include the State systems in the NCS? And does that bear on the questions of what assets are interstate in nature and what become intrastate? That is, does this refer

to

Mr. O'CONNELL. I think it bears on all of the things that you have mentioned. It bears first on the question of what joint requirements exist between Federal and State governments.

For example, in the Medicare program, it bears on the reporting of various State, and local, and Federal facilities located within the State. How are you going to pull together the reporting of what the patient load is? There is a need here for getting the Federal and State and the local agencies together in reporting, consolidation of statistics, and in communications. They can obviously help each other by the exchange of supplies.

Another point of consideration is whether the State can use Federal Telpaking. I believe the costs incurred by the States could be reduced, if they were to utilize Federal Telpaking. This reduction would be on the order of about two-thirds. That is, if the States would get going with the Federal Government and take advantage of the wholesale rates involved in the long lines offering of Telpak service. This is a considerable amount of money in the 50 States.

Mr. DAHLIN. On the bottom of page 39 you seem to say that there is an urgent need to join these systems in emergency situations. Are you suggesting that some arrangements be made for some type of emergency switching or switches that are placed in one status in one case and joined only in emergencies or what are you suggesting?

Mr. O'CONNELL. Well, not only that. There certainly would be the capability for interconnection of the systems, and there would be some practicing done in accomplishing this interconnection. First of all, the systems would be designed to be electrically compatible so that the switching could be accomplished. The means for interconnection should be actually available, and then the systems should be exercised so that everybody finds out how to do it. Therefore, in an emergency it could be effectively, rapidly, and efficiently accomplished.

POLICING OF FREQUENCY USE

Mr. DAHLIN. Have you described how the policing and inspection of the Government radio system and use of the spectrum is accom

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plished? Is that delegated out to the agencies? Are you managing that now?

Mr. O'CONNELL. No; we are endeavoring to do this within the limited resources of the office. Mr. Plummer, would you like to speak on this? Here is an area where we need to do much more, and we need an increase in personnel to do it. What we have done so far is to get a system of inspection started, to find out by a limited number of trips what we are going to be up against, to develop a procedure and a methodology for conducting such inspections. I should say that the inspections that we have held have indicated that the agencies have high standards of frequency discipline and frequency use.

Would you like to amplify that?

Mr. PLUMMER. Yes, sir; that is correct. We, by taking people away from other work, have managed to have about one-half man-year devoted to this effort, to make arrangements with a particular agency to go visit a station, to see how they operate, what the facilities are, whether they are using frequencies in accordance with terms of authorization, and whether they have frequencies they are not using.

The results of inspections are written up in a report, and coordinated with the agency operating the station that was inspected to make sure we use facts only. It is then submitted to Mr. O'Connell for approval. Upon approval a copy is sent to the head of the agency, and to the frequency manager of the agency. We have visited the Army, Navy, Treasury Department, FBI, Interior, AEC, about six or seven a year, depending on how much time we can spare for it. It is really only token inspection. We feel it is accomplishing a lot though, because the agencies have come to expect it. They do not know where we will go next, and so they naturally improve and present a good picture. Out of the 12 or 14 we have inspected to date, we found only 1 frequency that was not properly authorized. That has been corrected. Mr. DAHLIN. How about the problem on page 77 where you areMr. O'CONNELL. I think I should say this has never been done before.

Mr. PLUMMER. That is right.

Mr. O'CONNELL. In the 40 years that the Federal Government has been handling this frequency business, no previous

Mr. DAHLIN. You are doing it partly by inspection and publicity, as an inspector general function, rather than delegating

Mr. PLUMMER. I might add we have no monitoring facilities to take the signal off the air.

Mr. DAHLIN. A related question-where you talk about hazards to life and property from such things as garage door openers, do you have many cases a year where this affects the Government agencies and vice verse? Do those reports come to your office, is that the place where these kinds of complaints or problems come to you?

Mr. O'CONNELL. Yes. Through the agencies. In other words, if a military airport has difficulty and receives interference because of garage door openers, it is reported to the local FCC district for immediate relief. We will, in some cases at least, receive notification of this in my office, not always.

I think that this is a place where improvement can be made. Mr. PLUMMER. I might say-these opener units are being built and installed far faster than we can find and correct them. The FCC has been working very well with us on this matter. It takes a terrific

amount of manpower. Actually when we locate the source of the interference, the Commission goes to the owner of the garage, points out what is happening, and asks him to correct it. Even if it is corrected, it may be on the air again the following week.

If the bill, S. 1015, were enacted, it would then give the Commission authority to get at the trouble at the source; in other words, at the point of manufacture.

Mr. O'CONNELL. In the design of the equipment.

Mr. PLUMMER. These things are going in by the tens of thousands all over the country.

Mr. DAHLIN. Thank you very much.

URGENCY OF IDCSP GROUND STATION PROGRAM

Mr. ROBACK. Mr. O'Connell, we are in receipt of a communication of General Betts, who is chief of R. & D. of the Army, following our hearings with the Army, wherein we indicated some concern about the ground stations. I want to read one paragraph and ask for your comment, whether your office is in any way involved. [Reading:]

In further recognition of the urgent need for an operation at status in the Pacific, the AN/MSC-46 and AN/TSC-54 terminal development programs have been placed in the highest military priority category to shorten the delivery of critical components. As a continuing action, those components and subassemblies which may cause future delays in terminal deliveries are being identified. It is intended that these particular items be given top priority. (The full text of the letter appears at the end of the Army testimony, p. 231.)

Does your office have anything to do with assigning priorities? This is strictly an internal defense matter?

Mr. O'CONNELL. If we can help them in any way, we would be happy to.

Mr. ROBACK. Do you subscribe to the general urgency of these ground stations?

Mr. O'CONNELL. I do indeed.

Mr. ROBACK. And operations?
Mr. O'CONNELL. I do indeed.

Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Roback, here is a matter of where the office is involved from information and coordination standpoints. I might mention that this very question came up before the Communications Satellite Technology Panel of Mr. O'Connell's Intragovernmental Communications Satellite Coordination Committee.

Mr. ROBACK. What came up?

Mr. MORRIS. The question of priority and the need for pushing forward the earth station program. The Department of Defense at that time indicated that they were considering some changes in priority, and indeed these did come forward.

The panel took no action. It was merely asking for information. It may have prompted some additional action on the part of the Department of Defense. There was no directed action, you can be assured.

Mr. ROBACK. Well, anyway they took it now.

Mr. MORRIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROBACK. Thank you.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. This will conclude our hearing for today, Mr. O'Connell. We thank you for your appearance before the committee and for the long series of answers, and your testimony which you have given to us will be helpful to us in our work, and we will excuse you at this time.

Tomorrow we plan to have witnesses from State and FAA before us at 10 o'clock in this room.

Mr. O'CONNELL. We appreciate your interest and your support, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. ROBACK. The FAA testimony, if it is not concluded tomorrow, will carry over until Friday.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. Thank you.

(Whereupon, at 12:15 p.m., the committee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Thursday, September 1, 1966.)

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