cern is to provide this highly reliable circuit to a key ship, a flagship, or a carrier.

Now, these ships all have a very considerable capacity for local communications with the ships of its task group, its task force, and would then be the collecting points for disseminating the orders received via this terminal, so really the use of the Kingsport isn't relevant as a mobile terminal, it is not really proper for use with our ships when we plan to put them right in the combatant ships.

Mr. ROBACK. It is not a user, it is not a receiver of communications? Could it be a relay?

Admiral WEEKS. It could be a relay but it would be an extremely expensive way to provide it when we expect to provide the equivalent capacity in a combat ship which is there for other reasons.

As I mentioned in my earlier statement, we do plan to put terminals in our own communications relay ships which have a very extensive rebroadcast capability and ships circuit terminating capability, where ships in the area will provide their traffic to this ship, but will be transmitted over the long haul via the satellite.

COST OF AN/SSC-3 STATION

Mr. DAHLIN. Admiral, what is the approximate cost of the Navy ship installation?

Captain VAN ORDEN. Since the contract is not yet completed, it is difficult to say.

Mr. DAHLIN. Is it a cost contract?

Captain VAN ORDEN. It is a cost-plus-incentive fee contract.

Mr. DAHLIN. Is it running within its boundaries or parameters so as to make incentives? Or is this going to be a mainly cost contract? Captain VAN ORDEN. No, sir; as I indicated, there is some slight slippage and one of the incentives is on delivery times.

The other incentive is in cost. Apparently with a slippage there is also some cost increase. I am not certain yet as to whether or not the incentive figures will be met. I am practically sure that from the standpoint of schedule slippages not all of the terminals will meet the incentive dates.

Mr. DAHLIN. Roughly what is the cost of it?

Captain VAN ORDEN. Roughly $700,000 per ship.

Mr. DAHLIN. Is that a pretty high cost compared to any other piece of equipment?

Captain VAN ORDEN. No, sir; I think it is a fairly reasonable cost when you consider the complexity and the advanced technology included in this terminal. You see our desire was to keep it as small as possible, to use as many advanced modulation techniques as we could in order to get maximum performance from this very small terminal. Mr. DAHLIN. When you speak of your terminal, what components does that include? The Army describes its terminals as having vans and that sort of thing. Is there a generic description you can use in saying what kind of gear, and how much gear is in the terminal? Captain VAN ORDEN. Well, yes. In the IDCSP, the AN/SSC-3 terminal which is presently the one under contract to Hughes, we have two distinct elements; first, an antenna and mount which is located in

the superstructure of the ship, and then through cabling to a transportable shelter which is located on deck at a lower level.

Now, in the antenna and mount installation are a cooled receiver and a transmitter. In the control shelter are the various control equipments, the multiplex equipments, and the order wire teletype.

Mr. DAHLIN. The ground stations are on the order of a half-million dollars and the ship stations are about $700,000?.

Captain VAN ORDEN. Yes, sir. One thing that should be made clear, though, is that the ship stations need a much more complex antenna mechanism, they need three-axis mounts so that they can track under all conditions of ship motion and maneuvering. So, I think, the antennas are somewhat more complex than those required for the ground stations.

COST-EFFECTIVENESS OF SHIP STATIONS

Mr. DAHLIN. In the ships in which it will be installed, will this be additional gear or will it supplant any existing gear for communications?

Captain VAN ORDEN. Certainly in the beginning it will be additional gear. The satellite system has to prove itself. We have to prove to the operating forces that this can, in fact, supplant in the future perhaps some of their communications.

I would anticipate in the future it will, in fact, replace some of our long-distance communications circuits.

However, until such time as it is a proven system, we can't say that it will definitely replace anything.

Mr. DAHLIN. How many years off do you think it might be before you can decide?

Captain VAN ORDEN. I think the decision can occur within the next year, certainly after we get some operational use from these systems. we can then decide what can be replaced and how soon it can be replaced.

Mr. DAHLIN. By next fall you would be in position to know whether this is an additional means or the kind of equipment that could replace existing equipment?

Captain VAN ORDEN. In my estimation, yes, sir. We will by next fall be able to make a much better determination of whether or not it can, in fact, replace existing systems.

Mr. DAHLIN. And you think that it could, costwise, also be interchangeable if the decision were that you could replace existing com munications; is that true?

Captain VAN ORDEN. I am not sure I understand the question.

Mr. DAHLIN. If the installation is about in the same order of cost a other items, and you find that this channel of communications could replace other means from the cost-effectiveness point of view, would i be just as cheap to put in the equipment in a ship as what you have in comparable gear?

Captain VAN ORDEN. It is hard to say until we are certain just wha can be replaced. From a cost standpoint we can't price out those unit that might be replaced. I would guess, however, in the future we wil be able to decrease the costs of these terminals, certainly if we go ou with competitive buys, we would anticipate the costs could come down considerably, and as the technology advances certainly additional cos savings can be realized.

I can't answer your question directly, sir. I don't know what equipment might be replaced and, therefore, I can't make an estimate of its costs.

Mr. DAHLIN. I understand.

Admiral WEEKS. I would like to make one comment in connection with that.

It is not a hundred percent a matter of cost-effectiveness on this decision, because you do have to take into account the advantages that you attain by having this kind of communications in addition to the conventional type.

I believe these have been pretty thoroughly discussed, but I do want to point out that the availability of a completely continuously reliable system is, maybe, worth whatever premium you have determined you have to pay on this cost effectiveness basis. I would certainly agree that this needs to be very carefully examined, and we would certainly do that.

Mr. DAHLIN. You made a very important point, Admiral, if a secure and continuous means of communications is important to the Navy.

Admiral WEEKS. Indeed it is.

Mr. DAHLIN. It concerns you if you lose contact with a ship, I presume.

Admiral WEEKS. Certainly.

Mr. DAHLIN. And you, in fact, need that kind of communications with every ship, if you can get it cheaply enough and without interfering with the rest of the system. So it is at least not impossible that the Navy would write requirements that would go up to be validated, whether or not they would be validated, to be able to communicate with all its ships at sea over IDCSP.

Admiral WEEKS. Not over IDCSP.

Mr. DAHLIN. Or ADCSP or some other.

Admiral WEEKS. We look to the tactical program.

Mr. DAHLIN. Leaving the present IDCSP limitation aside, the Navy could write such a requirement without being out of bounds?

Admiral WEEKS. I would say probably the Navy would-here I can't speak for what my front office would say, but as one who was quite familiar with the communications requirements of the Navy, I think I could justify stating a requirement for the provision of maybe 600 shipboard terminals of something like a tactical program in an effort to provide the kind of communications that the operators are always plugging at me to provide them.

At the moment, I know no other way to do it.

Now, when you have had a chance to examine my classified statement, I think you will see some of the other reasons that are involved in this, as well.

MARINE CORPS INTEREST

Mr. DAHLIN. How about Marine Corps requirements as well as Navy requirements?

Admiral WEEKS. The Marines are extremely interested in this for many of the same reasons that the Army is interested in it.

Mr. DAHLIN. The Marines can't afford an R. & D. program in this area; is that the case?

Admiral WEEKS. Their land requirements are being looked after by the Army. There is a certain-the Marines are thoroughly familiar with what is going on, and we would expect in our program to provide on the ships, say of the amphibious force, the tactical communications interface with the Marines as they go ashore.

Mind you, we won't know how well this will work until we have tested it. The provision of satellite communications for a tremendous number of users such as you might have in an amphibious operation requires the solution of many problems of multiple access to the satel lite all of which are just on the threshold of being examined.

Mr. DAHLIN. In previous testimony, Admiral Roeder mentioned project MISER. Has that been merged into the general communications problem?

Admiral WEEKS. Yes, sir.

Captain Van ORDEN. Yes, sir; MISER was the name of the project in the early days. It has now developed into two projects, one of which is the tactical program and one of which is the defense communications satellite program.

Mr. DAHLIN. In other words, that development was money that went into the SSC-3?

Captain VAN ORDEN. That was the early stage; yes, sir.

VLF SATELLITE

Mr. DAHLIN. Admiral Roeder also mentioned the LOFTI program and said that back in 1964 that the results were being analyzed and expected to provide valuable information for the future. Has all that information and analysis been completed by now?

Captain VAN ORDEN. No. The analysis is not yet complete. There were vast quantities of data assembled in the LOFTI program. The next step, which would obviously be necessary, would be to try to orbit a transmitting VLF satellite. We are not yet ready to take that step because there are differences of opinion as to whether it would be a feasible approach. When these data are analyzed and when there have been sufficient determinations made of the validity of the technique, then I think we will be in a position to make another step, if it is indicated.

Mr. DAHLIN. Is part of the Navy program also to examine the special problems of carrier operation with its aircraft under the Tacsatcom program?

Admiral WEEKS. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROBACK. Admiral Weeks, I want to be informed as to whether I am still an Honorary Naval Communicator.

Admiral WEEKS. We have taken no names off the list yet.

Mr. ROBACK. Thank you very much.

Admiral WEEKS. And we would be very happy to have you come down to any of our stations at any time when they have the annual amateur contest-have you ever been involved with that?

Mr. ROBACK. No, I have not.

Admiral WEEKS. We would be delighted

Mr. ROBACK. I may want to broaden my education before the season is over.

OPERATIONAL USE OF SATELLITES

Admiral WEEKS. Mr. Chairman, I have one thing I would like to mention in connection with this business of getting operational. We have tried very hard to get operational on satellite communications. I mentioned a little earlier that we were putting terminals in our communication relay ships. We have within the last month put one in the U.S.S. Annapolis. She is a communications relay ship on station in the South China Sea, and we received from her yesterday a message, and I have taken out certain classified information from this, but here is the remainder:

Transmission of this message inaugurates passing of operational traffic from Navy commands at sea in the Vietnam combat zone to CONUS. The shipboard satellite terminal in Annapolis is linked through SYNCOM III to NAVCOMSTA Honolulu. Operational traffic from Seventh Fleet commands passed to Annapolis is relayed eastward with dispatch via this link, Annapolis, in the South China Sea, providing communications support to units of the Seventh Fleet in the Vietnam combat zone and adjacent waters.

2. Another achievement this date: Link established with NAVCOMSTA PHIL via SYNCOM II. Fleet broadcast received via this method and rebroadcast to Seventh Fleet with high success. This will be continued on daily basis. SYNCOM II schedule being expanded near future to provide 4-hour period during ionospheric transition to ensure continuous high quality broadcast to Fleet.

The foregoing enhances the AGMR's capabilities and responsiveness to fleet requirements.

4. Operational traffic follows this message.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. We are very happy to have that statement, Admiral. Admiral WEEKS. We can assure you that the Syncom satellites will be used so long as they are performing to the quality level which will permit their use.

Mr. DAHLIN. Does this type of ship operate on many frequencies? Admiral WEEKS. Yes; this rebroadcast is a local rebroadcast. She will transmit on medium frequency and several high frequencies the broadcast tapes which have been transmitted to her by the Syncom.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. I am sure you are aware of the interest of this committee in seeing that military department of our Government has a reliable and efficient type of communication independent of commercial communication.

Admiral WEEKS. Yes, sir; we quite understand that, and I think we are in concurrence with that, too, sir.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. We realize that you will have to use the commercial for routine communications, and probably the bulk of your communications, but we would still be very pleased if we could have an efficient noninterruptible type of communication that was designed specifically for times when the commercial communication might not be available, and geared to the problem of avoiding possible interruption and interference.

Admiral WEEKS. We certainly are in full sympathy with those objectives, sir.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. Well, thank you very much.

Our next meeting at this time is scheduled for Wednesday of next week. There is a possibility of making arrangements to have a meeting sooner than that, but that will have to be arranged by negotiation. There will be a future announcement, if so.