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KF26
J8525
1980e

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

[97th Congress]

STROM THURMOND, South Carolina, Chairman
CHARLES McC. MATHIAS, JR., Maryland JOSEPH R. BIDEN, JR., Delaware
PAUL LAXALT, Nevada

EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah

ROBERT C. BYRD, West Virginia ROBERT DOLE, Kansas

HOWARD M. METZENBAUM, Ohio ALAN K. SIMPSON, Wyoming

DENNIS DECONCINI, Arizona JOHN P. EAST, North Carolina

PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa

MAX BAUCUS, Montana JEREMIAH DENTON, Alabama

HOWELL HEFLIN, Alabama
ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania

VINTON DEVANE LIDE, Chief Counsel
QUENTIN CROMMELIN, Jr., Staff Director

SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION AND REFUGEE POLICY

ALAN K. SIMPSON, Wyoming, Chairman STROM THURMOND, South Carolina

EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa

DENNIS DECONCINI, Arizona
RICHARD W. Day, Chief Counsel and Staff Director

Donna M. ALVARADO, Counsel

CHARLES O. Wood, Counsel
ARNOLD H. LEIBOWITZ, Special Counsel

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82-601840

BHBS 182ny 82

CONTENTS

OPENING STATEMENTS

CHRONOLOGICAL LIST OF WITNESSES
Meissner, Doris, Acting Commissioner, Immigration and Naturalization Serv-

ice, U.S. Department of Justice, accompanied by David Hiller, Special As-

sistant to the Attorney General
Lovell, Malcolm, Jr., Under Secretary, U.S. Department of Labor..
Asencio, Diego C., Assistant Secretary for Consular Affairs U.S. Department

of State ...

Schmitt, Hon. Harrison, U.S. Senator from the State of New Mexico.

Fuchs, Lawrence H., Jaffe, professor of American Civilization and Politics,

Brandeis University, formerly executive director of the Select Commission

on Immigration and Refugee Policy.

Oswald, Dr. Rudy, director, department of economic research, AFL-CIO

Bower, Stephanie, coordinator, legislative department, United Farm Workers.

Ellsworth, Perry, executive vice president, National Council of Agricultural

.

Otero, Joaquin F., international vice president, Brotherhood of Railway and

Airline Clerks, and executive vice chairman, Labor Council for Latin

American Advancement, accompanied by Alfredo Montoya, executive direc-

tor (LCLAA)..

Huerta, John, associate counsel, Los Angeles office of Mexican American

Legal Defense and Education Fund (MALDEF].

Torres, Arnoldo S., executive director, League of United Latin American

Citizens (LULAC).

Cooper, Maudine, vice president for Washington operations, National Urban

League.

Briggs, Vernon, professor, Cornell University

Miller, Mark, professor, University of Delaware.

North, David, director, Center for Labor and Migration Studies, New Trans-

century Foundation,

Parker, Douglas L., director, Institute for Public Representation, Georgetown

University Law Center..

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122

THE KNOWING EMPLOYMENT OF ILLEGAL

IMMIGRANTS

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 30, 1981

U.S. SENATE,
SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION AND REFUGEE POLICY,
OF THE COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY,

Washington, D.C. The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:35 a.m., in room 412, Russell Building, Hon. Alan Simpson (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Present: Senators Simpson, Grassley, Kennedy, and DeConcini.

Also present: Richard Day, chief counsel and staff director, and Charles Wood, counsel.

OPENING STATEMENT OF ALAN K. SIMPSON, U.S. SENATOR FROM

THE STATE OF WYONING, CHAIRMAN, SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION AND REFUGEE POLICY

Senator SIMPSON. Good morning. Today the subcommittee's series of hearings on the major issues of immigration law reform continues with the very critical subject of employer sanctions. The series will continue in October, when we will have at least five more hearings.

I will share with you here today the quarters of the Veterans Affairs Committee, which I chair. That is the only way I can find a room around this place. It is not exactly copious, but it is the only one we can have surety of obtaining.

So today we are on the issue of employer sanctions. I continue to believe and know, as many of you do, that the enforcement of our immigration laws is indeed in the national interest. Yet the potential benefits and protections of even the most carefully designed statutory standards for determining who may enter the United States for how long, and under what conditions, will not be available in practice if those statutory standards cannot be enforced.

One of the problems, of course, is that some individuals and companies derive very great short-term economic benefits from uncontrolled immigration. However, what is in the short term and purely economic interest of certain industries or even of existing American consumers is not necessarily in the overall interest of the Nation, either long term or short term. Illegal immigration can produce adverse impacts which should be balanced against any short-term economic benefits to certain industries or consumers. I do not intend to review those adverse impacts at this time. If the use of foreign workers is, on balance, beneficial under certain cir

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