Mr. BENWAY. Not a bit; no, sir. Mr. DALLINGER. That is all. You are excused. The committee will adjourn until 2 o'clock this afternoon. (Thereupon the committee took a recess until 2 o'clock p. m.) AFTER RECESS. The committee reassembled at 2 o'clock p. m., pursuant to recess. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will please come to order. Mr. Boland will you please take the witness chair? STATEMENT OF MR. F. W. BOLAND. (The witness was sworn by the chairman.) The CHAIRMAN. Give your full name and your present address to the stenographer. Mr. BOLAND. F. W. Boland; residence, 5826 Morrowfield Avenue, Pittsburgh, Pa. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Boland, what is your work at present? Mr. BOLAND. I am director of the Alleghany Vocational School, Pittsburgh. The CHAIRMAN. What is the Alleghany Vocational School? Mr. BOLAND. It is a special school that I started for the purpose of educating the disabled discharged soldiers for the Federal board. The CHAIRMAN. Then, it is of recent origin? Mr. BOLAND. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Did you start it? Mr. BOLAND. Yes, sir; I started it. The CHAIRMAN. When? Mr. BOLAND. September 1. The CHAIRMAN. Of what year? Mr. BOLAND. 1919. The CHAIRMAN. What had you been doing prior to that? Mr. BOLAND. I was supervisor of industrial education in the Pittsburgh schools-that is, in the high schools. The CHAIRMAN. In the public-school system? Mr. BOLAND. Yes, sir; in the public-school system. The CHAIRMAN. How long had you been in that position? Mr. BOLAND. About one year in that position. The CHAIRMAN. What was your salary in that position? Mr. BOLAND. In that position alone it was $275 a month. The CHAIRMAN. That would amount to, for the school year, how much? Mr. BOLAND. $2,750. That was at the time, of course, that I started this work; that was my salary, but, of course, it would have been considerably more at the present time had I stayed with the board. The CHAIRMAN. You mean by that that there has been an increase of salary? Mr. BOLAND. Quite an increase. The CHAIRMAN. In Pittsburgh? Mr. BOLAND. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. How long have you been connected with the public-school system of Pittsburgh? Mr. BOLAND. About five years. I can not say the exact number of years in Pittsburgh. The CHAIRMAN. That is sufficient. What was the line of your teaching? Mr. BOLAND. First I had charge of the industrial education; that is, the industrial work at Franklin School; second, the Fifth Avenue School; transferred over to the Schenley High School, and from the Schenley High School to supervisor of high school industrial training. The CHAIRMAN. As supervisor, you had control of all this work throughout the city? Mr. BOLAND. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What led you to build the special school? Mr. BOLAND. Well, I started in a way before September 1; that is, I started a receiving station or opened a receiving station-in July, 1919, in the Schenley School. Dr. Boland, then district vocational officer, was directed to me. I was supervisor of industrial education, and he was directed to me, because he wished to have the school started in Pittsburgh-or opened in Pittsburgh-and he asked if I would start such a school. The board of education granted me permission to use the Schenley High School and I started there July 1, as I remember. Well, I was interested in the work; that was the reason I started it. I was just asked to do it and I did it. I thought that I was qualified to do that particular kind of work and I just did it. The CHAIRMAN. You began the work in connection with your school worl? Mr. BOLAND. No; school was out at the time. I was doing nothing at the time. The CHAIRMAN. You had permission of the Schenley High School? You had permission to use the Schenley High School building? Mr. BOLAND. Yes; I had permission to use the shops in the Schenley High School for this work. The CHAIRMAN. And what you were doing was upon the invitation of the head of the rehabilitation work in Pittsburgh? Was Roland the head of that work? Mr. BOLAND. No: he was district vocational officer? The CHAIRMAN. Located where? Mr. BOLAND. At Philadelphia. The CHAIRMAN. What is this Alleghany Vocation School as to equipment? Mr. BOLAND. Alleghany Vocational School had very little equipment at the time I took it over. It was an old school. It was known as the Alleghany Preparatory School before I leased it. It had not been used for four years. The CHAIRMAN. Was it in shape, so far as equipment is concerned, to go on with the work? Mr. BOLAND. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Who equipped it? Mr. BOLAND. With my own funds; funds I borrowed; and with funds that I have since gotten through my work for the Federal board. The CHAIRMAN. Did you have an contract with the Federal board as to equipment? Mr. BOLAND. No; I had no contract with the Federal board as to equipment. The CHAIRMAN. You have a contract, though, with the board, haven't you, as to training? Mr. BOLAND. Yes; I do have. The CHAIRMAN. What is that contract? Mr. BOLAND. That I am to have a minimum of 50 men per month for one year at $35 per month for all over 150. The CHAIRMAN. That would mean that if you did not have that number the Government would pay for that? Mr. BOLAND. Would pay for that; yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Well, how has that proved out? Have you ever had less than the guaranteed number? Mr. BOLAND. No, sir; I have not. The CHAIRMAN. Have you had many more than the guaranteed number? Mr. BOLAND. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What number have you had? Mr. BOLAND. I have about 500 men at the present time. The CHAIRMAN. How much of a force do you have with you to do this teaching? Mr. BOLAND. I have 30 teachers. The CHAIRMAN. That overhead expense would run about how much per month? Mr. BOLAND. You mean for teachers alone? The CHAIRMAN. Well, I am trying to get at the cost of the work you are doing. Mr. BOLAND. The total overhead; would you like that? The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Mr. BOLAND. The total overhead for last month was approxi mately $13,500. The CHAIRMAN. For last month? Mr. BOLAND. No; not last month; for the month of April. I can not say for last month. The CHAIRMAN. Last month would be April. Mr. BOLAND. The month of March, I mean. The CHAIRMAN. And the 500 would be something like 350 at $30 a month; the others $35? Mr. BOLAND. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Are you finding that a profitable movement for you? Mr. BOLAND. I haven't made anything-that is, I haven't taken any money from my work for the Federal board up to the present time. The CHAIRMAN. Has the equipment that is necessary to run this school been expensive? Mr. BOLAND. It has been expensive. The CHAIRMAN. Could you give us a statement as to that? Mr. BOLAND. No, sir: I could not give you an exact statement as to the cost of equipment, but as I figure the equipment it has cost approximately, from the time I started, $1,100 a month-that is, an average cost. That would mean that there is likely $7,000 or $8,000 worth of equipment that I purchased up to April 1. The CHAIRMAN. Well, is your equipment large enough to take care of 500 men? Mr. BOLAND. Yes, sir; my equipment is large enough to take care of-well, no; I would say it isn't. My equipment is large enough to take care of men taking the training at the present time, but as they come on ready for training I will add to that equipment. The CHAIRMAN. Do you contemplate a larger attendance than 500? The BOLAND. No, sir; I do not. The CHAIRMAN. Is that the limit? Mr. BOLAND. That would be likely my limit. The CHAIRMAN. What do you teach? How many courses are you giving in that school? Mr. BOLAND. A course in machine shop; electrical work, electrical shop; storage-battery repair work; sheet-metal work; structural layout or templet making; shoe repairing; cabinetmaking and carpentry; mechanical and architectural drawing. And the regular courses in elementary school work; that is, the Americanization courses and elementary bookkeeping courses. The CHAIRMAN. How long is the average course? Mr. BOLAND. I can't answer that question, I think, at the present time; that is, I can't say how long it would take for a course. The CHAIRMAN. Who would determine how long a man should be in the school before he has completed the work? Mr. BOLAND. Well, I think I would determine that, but I usually recommend a man for a long enough period so that he could take or complete a course; that is, if I figure that it will take from one to two years to train certain men, depending upon the man. The CHAIRMAN. You understand the significance of my question? If a student is in the school a short time, judging from the profit standpoint, it would not mean much to the institution; if he is there quite a length of time it might mean considerable, and my question is: Does the board have anything to say as to when that man shall be regarded as having been trained, or is that with you altogether? Mr. BOLAND. Well, since we have not, or I have not, had the men long enough to say, I can not answer that question, but I think the man himself would know. I had not thonght of it just that way. The CHAIRMAN. One thing I am interested in is how long this present work is likely to continue. We have been interested in whether the work will be completed within a certain time. I say, "We"; I mean Members of Congress, seeking the information necessary for appropriations. You have not had the men long enough to indicate? Mr. BOLAND. No: I have not. Now, for instance, there are a number of men taking this course-I call it a course-in elementary bookkeeping. Now, those men are men who have formerly worked as coal miners. They have very little education, some of them; they have been wounded in the arm or in the leg, and they can no longer carry on coal mining. At first, I did not know what to do with those men; so I went to the coal company and they told me-or first, they sent me to the mines and I looked into the work around the mines and found that these men could follow such work as timekeepers, weighmen, coal tenders, and such work, if they were trained to do it, and I organized this elementary bookkeeping course, which is really a sort of timekeeper or shop-account keepers' course. It is a course just in Americanization, followed up by record keeping. Several of those men are about ready to take up such work and they have been with me for less than six months; yet, at the beginning I thought those men might take longer than a year, but I find that they are about ready to go out on the job now. The CHAIRMAN. That would mean that the men take to the work more readily than you thought they might? Mr. BOLAND. Yes; at the beginning. The CHAIRMAN. Learning more rapidly? The CHAIRMAN. May I ask you whether your courses are such that entrance can not be had until some prevocational work had been done, and do you give such prevocational work, and how long do you permit it? Suppose here is some one that wants to take a course in law. He has not the equipment for it. Do you undertake to prepare him for it? Mr. BOLAND. No, sir: I do not. The CHAIKMAN. How do you draw the line on that? Mr. BOLAND. I would recommend that man to a different school. I would not try to handle that particular man. In other words, any man having more than a first-year high-school training is recommended by me to some other school. I handle all of the low-grade men, not the higher-grade men, in the first-year high school, unless the man requests that I keep him at that particular school. The CHAIRMAN. What are the qualifications that you require for your teachers? Mr. BOLAND. Well, first, they are good teachers. I have, I think, the best teachers that I can find. The CHAIRMAN. What salaries do you pay? Mr. BOLAND. I pay as high as $325 a month to teachers. The CHAIRMAN. I notice you give it by months. Is that because you do not hire by the year? Mr. BOLAND. No; it is not because I do not hire by the year, but I do not know-we have just paid teachers that way. The CHAIRMAN. Where do you get your teachers? Mr. BOLAND. Several of the teachers have taught in the public schools of Pittsburgh or in towns handy to Pittsburgh. The CHAIRMAN. Do you pay more than Pittsburgh city pays? The CHAIRMAN. Do you run any night school there? Mr. BOLAND. No, sir; I do not. The CHAIRMAN. Your school is run at the time the Pittsburgh schools are in session, so that the teacher that teaches for you is not teaching also in the Pittsburgh schools? Mr. BOLAND. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You said a moment ago you had 30 teachers? The CHAIRMAN. And in enumerating the courses you enumerated more than a dozen, considerably? Now, what is the length of those courses? Do they differ in length? Will one person be trained in |