fast as we can, to put in training these soldiers, as an economic proposition. Now, there was one other question. I was very much struck to-day with the statement of Mr. Lamkin, the head of this great work, that he had never appeared or been called to appear before the Vocational Board. Is there anything in the law or regulation, so far as you know, that makes it improper for him to appear before the board, or would hinder or prevent the board from calling him? Mr. RICHARDSON. Absolutely nothing. Mr. ROBSION. Why should that situation be, anyway? Mr. RICHARDSON. I am unable to answer that. The CHAIRMAN. You referred to the board. Really the board is the standing committee and the three ex officio members; that is, the Cabinet members. I understand that Mr. Lamkin has been with the standing committee frequently. Mr. RICHARDSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. I agree with you, Mr. Robsion, that there ought to be a little closer relationship, it would seem to me, between the man who has the direction of all of this tremendously big division of the work and the board which has given him authority, although I presume that the plan on which they are going is that the board leaves that work to this standing committee, and therefore they are not dealing with the director. The board is dealing with the standing committee and the standing committee with the director. Mr. ROBSION. I can hardly conceive of any business institution, bank, or factory, with a board of directors, which would correspond to the Vocational Board, having a man for several months directing that great business or undertaking, and at no time calling him before the board of directors to talk to them, and let them talk to him, and get that heart-to-heart touch. (Whereupon the committee adjourned until Friday, May 7, 1920, at 10 o'clock a. m.) COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION, The committee this day met, Hon. Simeon D. Fess (chairman) presiding. The CHAIRMAN. Will Mr. Dolan take the witness stand, please? TESTIMONY OF MR. H. F. DOLAN, DISBURSING OFFICER, FEDERAL BOARD FOR VOCATIONAL EDUCATION, WASHINGTON, D. C. (The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.) The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Dolan, please give your full name and address. Mr. DOLAN. H. F. Dolan; residence, 1434 Newton Street NW., Washington, D. C. The CHAIRMAN. What is your present position? Mr. DOLAN. Disbursing officer of the Federal Board for Vocational Education. The CHAIRMAN. How long have you been with the Federal board? Mr. DOLAN. Since September 24, 1917. The CHAIRMAN. That was before the rehabilitation act was passed? Mr. DOLAN. Yes, sir; I was the original disbursing officer. The CHAIRMAN. What had been your work before you came to that position? Mr. DOLAN. I was connected with the purchasing agent's office of the Post Office Department. The CHAIRMAN. Here in Washington? Mr. DOLAN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. How long had you been here? Mr. DOLAN. In Washington? The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. DOLAN. In the Post Office Department? The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. DOLAN. About 14 years. The CHAIRMAN. By whom were you appointed to your present position? Mr. DOLAN. By the chairman of the board. The CHAIRMAN. The chairman of the Federal board? Mr. DOLAN. Of the Federal board: yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. As disbursing officer what general information would you have in regard to the financial transactions of the board? Mr. DOLAN. Well, I would know all about the disbursement of the funds. The CHAIRMAN. Would you know what salaries are being paid to all those connected with the board? Mr. DOLAN. That is a record in my office, but I would hardly remember them; we have a great number now. The CHAIRMAN. It is not my purpose to enter upon any detail like that; I would not expect you to remember them all. What I am getting at is to qualify you for testifying on matters that we may have to pass on. Mr. DOLAN. All pay rolls pass through my office. The CHAIRMAN. You were acquainted with Dr. Prosser? The CHAIRMAN. Do you know what salary was paid him? The CHAIRMAN. Was that his salary when he first became identified with the board? Mr. DOLAN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. $10,000 from the beginning? Mr. DOLAN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. He came to the board soon after the SmithHughes bill took effect? Mr. DOLAN. He was the director before I came with the board. The CHAIRMAN. In other words, he was the first director of the work? Mr. DOLAN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Do you know whether the $10,000 was paid to him as director of the board from any particular fund? Mr. DOLAN. At the outset when we had only the vocational education work the $10,000 was paid from the appropriation "Salaries and expenses, Federal Board for Vocational Education." After the board took over the rehabilitation work the salary was then split and half was paid from the appropriation just mentioned and the other half from the appropriation "Vocational rehabilitation." The CHAIRMAN. It was not changed, then? Mr. DOLAN. Oh, no, sir. The CHAIRMAN. The $10,000 was paid from two funds? The CHAIRMAN. $5,000 from each? Mr. DOLAN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Why was that done? Mr. DOLAN. It is not uncommon, Mr. Chairman. In my office every day we have vouchers from transportation companies where the travel is chargeable to the different appropriations, and we must make a segregation of the travel and pay it according to the appropriation to which it is properly chargeable. That happens every day in my office. I will have a voucher from a transportation company calling for a certain amount of money in the aggregate, and a part of that will be paid from the appropriation "Salaries and expenses, Federal Board for Vocational Education," and the remainder from the vocational rehabilitation appropriation. The CHAIRMAN. What is the salary of Mr. Munroe, for example? Mr. DOLAN. $5,000 per annum. The CHAIRMAN. He is the acting head or vice chairman of the board and has both these functions. Why is not his salary divided? Mr. DOLAN. I can not say as to why; that is purely an administrative matter, and I should imagine The CHAIRMAN (interposing). Would not the other be purely administrative in connection with Dr. Prosser? Mr. DOLAN. I could not say as to that. The CHAIRMAN. I knew that Dr. Prosser was getting $10,000. I have known that from the beginning. In fact, I recommended the appointment of Dr. Prosser originally to this position. I do not mean to say that had anything to do with the appointment. I had been associated with him on the commission and knew his worth. When this rehabilitation work was taken over and the salary was split I was wondering whether it was not a subterfuge to cover up something. Here was a member of the board getting only $5,000 and here was the director getting $10,000. Was there any reason why it should be split up so that there would be no employee of the board getting more than the members of the board were getting? Mr. DOLAN. None whatsoever. The CHAIRMAN. There was not anything in that? Mr. DOLAN. No, sir. The law requires us to make report of the names and salaries of the employees. That report was made, of course, $5,000 to Dr. Prosser from one appropriation and $5,000 from another appropriation. As a matter of fact, Mr. Chairman, it is all under one appointment, so far as the records of my office show, it is just the salary, nothing more. We do not refer to it as two salaries; it is just a salary. The CHAIRMAN. Up to the time of the passage of the rehabilitation act there was only one salary, but afterwards $5,000 was paid from one and $5,000 from the other, which would open up the charge that there were two salaries paid this man? Mr. DOLAN. I do not see how that could be, Mr. Chairman, when we have precedents for it. It is done in the other departments. To be sure of our ground we referred it to the Comptroller of the Treasury and he said it was right and proper, but as far as that is concerned, we might split Mr. Munroe's salary and pay him $2,500 from one and $2,500 from another. I would not be so sure about that—I would not be sure just what we could do; I would have to look into the matter. The CHAIRMAN. You say there are other departments, other than the Vocational Board Mr. DOLAN (interposing). That is my understanding. The CHAIRMAN (continuing). Splitting salaries? Mr. DOLAN. It is paid in the same manner, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Did Mr. Winslow receive a divided salary or salaries from two sources? Mr. DOLAN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. On the same basis? Mr. DOLAN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What about the salary of the chief clerk, Mr. Alden? Mr. DOLAN. His salary is also paid from the two appropriations. Mr. DOLAN. It is paid in the same manner, Mr. Chairman. |