Admiral LAND. Nothing you could put your teeth into. They have been fooling around for about 5 years with half-baked offers, but nothing specific.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Did not Mr. Grady, president of the line, make an offer for it?

Admiral LAND. Yes; but it was really a suggestion as to the basis of a possible offer, rather than an offer.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How much was it?

Admiral LAND. I do not remember; I have it at the office.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Three and a half million; something like that? Admiral LAND. I do not remember the figure, Mr. Wigglesworth. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Will you place that figure in the record? Admiral LAND. Yes.

(The statement is as follows:)

Mr. Grady suggested a purchase for a figure of $7,000,000, but of this total figure, only $500,000 was payable unconditionally and the balance was to be made dependent upon future earnings of the company. We have not advertised the

company for sale or received any formal offers other than Mr. Grady's suggestion since over a year ago. The offers received over a year ago ranged from $1,000,000 to nearly $4,000,000.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. And indicate whether that was the highest offer you had.

Admiral LAND. There was no competition on that. That was an individual suggestion. It was the highest and lowest. Because of the contingent nature of the suggested price it is not comparable to the offers made over a year ago.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Did you not call for bids?

Admiral LAND. No, sir; it was an informal proposal that we felt had insufficient merit to follow up.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How did they happen to make the offer? Admiral LAND. They said they would like to buy it and would like to keep the company with the operating personnel that now operates it. We are always receptive to suggestions looking toward the return of this company to private ownership on a fair basis.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Did you ever have a higher offer for it?

Admiral LAND. We put out a year or two ago a suggestion of offers without mentioning them, and we had a number of bids, none of which the Commission felt justified in accepting. The offer recently submitted by the company official also was not satisfactory to the Commission.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Was it the highest that you got?

Admiral LAND. In view of its contingent nature I do not know how it could be compared with the previous offers.

.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Will you indicate whether or not it was, when you revise your remarks?

Admiral LAND. Yes, sir. The offers of a year ago have little significance today. We are confident that on a public offering now the stock would attract much more favorable offers than the best heretofore received.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Was this particular transaction of $15,300,000 approved by all the Commission?

Admiral LAND. It happened to be a W. S. A. show, so I guess it was not. It was approved by me as Shipping Administrator. It indicates approval of all the people concerned, in the documents just mentioned. The Commission has in recent years fixed insurance

values for these vessels which were the same or higher than those finally allowed.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You pass on those things as Administrator? Admiral LAND. Yes, sir.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. The $15,300,000 went into the special reserve fund?

Admiral LAND. The capital reserve fund.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I wonder if you could give us a table that would show payments to this line during the life of the agency (a) with respect to charter hire, (b) with respect to vessels requisitioned for title, and (c) on account of insurance.

Admiral LAND. Yes. Most of that has been submitted, but we can bring it up to date. Two large blue booklets on this line have been submitted to the Congress.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. To whom? The Merchant Marine Committee?

Admiral LAND. No; I do not know where they went. There are plenty of them around, though. It is one of the most voluminous jobs we have ever had. I shall be very glad to bring it up to date. (The information is as follows:)

The payments made to American President Lines for charter hire to March 1, 1945, insurance due to total loss of vessels and requisition for title of vessels are as follows:

President Buchanan, President Fillmore, President Grant, President

1$4, 843, 270. 68 527, 948. 15 1, 542, 749. 34 484, 887. 64 1, 626, 790. 83

! Includes insurance for total loss of steamships President Grant and President Taylor.

511, 886. 65 1, 629, 318. 19

509, 807. 80 1, 644, 199. 75 3, 171, 004. 00 16, 491, 863. 03

30, 930, 454. 91

UNITED STATES LINES

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What about the United States Lines? You spoke about the Manhattan and the Washington. There has been some talk about them. That was $19,200,000 for two ships, one 10 years old and one 9 years old, if my information is correct.

Admiral LAND. That is about right.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. They originally cost around $21,000,000. What was the yardstick used there?

Admiral LAND. The same as in all others--the complete gamut of all yardsticks. It is all reported in Document No. 20-B.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. The detailed report to the Merchant Marine and Fisheries Committee?

Admiral LAND. Yes, sir.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Was that sum paid out of the insurance fund, or did that come out of the revolving fund?

Mr. CHUBB. One of the ships was purchased, and that came out of the revolving fund; the other ship was insured by the Maritime Commission before the War Shipping Administration was formed. So a portion of the insurance money came from the insurance fund.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. The court held you could not pay it out of the insurance fund?

Mr. RADNER. The question in the district court in that case was whether they could sue in the district court or be forced to sue in the Court of Claims. After exceptive allegations filed by the Attorney General, the court held on the papers then before it that suit would have to be dismissed and instituted in the Court of Claims. However, he gave the owners leave to submit additional material to prove, if they could, that there was insurance coverage in this case. The settlement having occurred shortly after that, there never was a full presentation of evidence and final decree or ruling based on such evidence. To the extent the ruling has significance, it would indicate that there was some question as to whether this was an insurance loss and we were guided accordingly.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. There was no contract of insurance?

Mr. RADNER. The question before the court was whether a bareboat charter constituted a contract of insurance as well as a contract of charter.

Mr. CHUBB. No money was paid the owners from the insurance fund.

AMERICAN-HAWAIIAN LINE

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Tell me about one other transaction, the American-Hawaiian Line, $7,200,000-plus for 11 ships built between 1910 and 1921.

Admiral LAND. That is a recent transaction.

Mr. RADNER. They rejected that tender as inadequate.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. So it was merely an offer on your part? Admiral LAND. It was an offer of settlement, as far as we were concerned. They rejected settlement, and they have the privilege of collecting 75 percent and then suing in the Court of Claims for whatever they think they can get.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Was the same yardstick used in that case? Admiral LAND. Yes; we applied the rules of the Advisory Board.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. That, I assume, has not been submitted? Admiral LAND. That has not been submitted yet, because it has been rejected and, therefore, was not of sufficient value to submit now. There is no finality in it, so it has not been submitted.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You have a Division of Large Vessel Procurement. Do these determinations fall within its jurisdiction? Admiral LAND. Yes.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. It makes determinations in the first instance? Admiral LAND. Yes.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Who is the head of that?

Admiral LAND. Mr. Chubb.

Mr. CHUBB. The committee reports to me. The special committee on vessel compensation. It is made up of four members.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Do you have a Division of Small Vessel Procurement also?

Admiral LAND. Yes, sir; headed by Commodore Moran. I brought here some of Commodore Moran's charts, showing how it has been done, but I do not want to take up a lot of time. If anybody is interested, we can show how we have taken care of about 2,900 "spit boxes," as I call them, ships under 1,000 tons.

STATUS OF VALUATION LITIGATION

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You said that 80 percent of the cases requiring determination of just compensation have been completed. That determination was made before we went to the $47.50 basis?

Admiral LAND. Yes, they were; because April 20 was only a few days ago.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Does that 80 percent include cases just referred to individual cases?

Admiral LAND. Yes.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Has there been any litigation yet in respect to any of the valuations?

Admiral LAND. Oh, there have been a number of suits that are started. Some of them are completed; some of them are still in the courts. There will probably be more.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What has been the result of those that have been completed?

Admiral LAND. So far as small vessel procurement is concerned, I do not know of any case where they got to first base; but I am trusting to memory; there may have been one or two.

Mr. RADNER. I might explain the situation on litigation. We have about 50 cases pending in various courts, and about 50 others threatened. Some of the smaller ones have recovered either exactly the amount we offered or a somewhat higher amount, but in all cases with interest of 6 or 7 percent, which is substantially more than we would allow-seven-eighths of 1 percent.

No large vessel case has reached finality except the Olson case, where the court allowed them a $3 per dead-weight ton bareboat charter hire for use of a ship in 1941-42.

There are two or three large vessel cases heading into the higher courts on jurisdictional points, including one on certiorari to the Supreme Court, the question there being, whether the owner of a time chartered vessel, where no agreed value exists, is entitled to sue

in district court on the theory that he has an insurance contract or whether the action should proceed in the Court of Claims.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Was the court allowance in that one case more or less than the value you had offered?

Mr. RADNER. The courts have not reached the question of value except in the cases of small craft.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I thought you said there was one case?

Mr. RADNER. That was a charter hire case and the decision is published in Document 20A. The court allowed $3 per dead-weight ton per month compared with our rate of $1.25. That was a determination by the court as to fair value for the use of a ship chartered by Navy subcontractors for use during the latter part of 1941 and the early part of 1942.

AGENCY FEES

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You gave us a year ago tables covering agency, cost, and compensation by company, I think. I wonder if you could bring that up to date.

Admiral LAND. Yes; I think we have that. (The statement is as follows:)

Statement reflecting number of vessels assigned to the below listed agents at the date indicated, compensation accrued under various service agreements and net results before and after application of pars. 10 and 11 of General Order No. 12 for the period July 1 to Dec. 31, 1942 (as reported by the agents)