Jones & Jones, would do. And the authorized capital has nothing to do with it. Mr. CASE. But you said a few minutes ago that when you approve those loans over $25,000 you turn them over to the R. F. C. and that they had no jurisdiction as to whether or not the loans should be granted. Mr. MAVERICK. We make the loan. They do not make the loan. They just write the papers. Mr. CASE. Where does the money come from? Mr. MAVERICK. From us, the Smaller War Plants Corporation. We use our money to make the loan; not a penny of the R. F. C. Just like you would go to a lawyer and he writes up the papers. We do not get a dime from the R. F. C., not a thin dime. Mr. CASE. You are not in the position of the Rural Electrification Administration? Mr. MAVERICK. I think they do get money from the R. F. C.; but we do not get a penny from them. DUTY OF DEFENSE PLANT CORPORATION AS SERVICING AGENT OF SMALLER WAR PLANTS CORPORATION Mr. PRINCE. There are two things that we ought to get straightened out. The law commissions the Defense Plant Corporation to act as servicing agent for the Sinaller War Plants Corporation. That is one thing. In other words, when we make a loan we deliver it to the Defense Plant Corporation as required by the statute, and they collect it. The other situation is that we hire R. F. C. attorneys on a reimbursable basis to represent us in closing the loans. They are two different things, and they are a little bit confusing. One is statutory and the other is contractual. Mr. CASE. Whose money is loaned? Mr. PRINCE. Our money. The R. F. C. charges us for what they do for us. We just hire them, as Mr. Maverick says, like Jones, Jones & Jones. We had to hire their lawyers because, when we started in 1942, younger lawyers were being drafted, and the older fellows were not interested in that kind of work. So we got experienced men on a contractual basis. Mr. MAVERICK. I think that what you are thinking about, Mr. Case, is that yesterday I said that the R. F. C.-I was talking about something entirely separate from us-had the right to rediscount paper and make more loans. Mr. CASE. I am talking about the same thing. Mr. MAVERICK. You said we wanted something without authority of Congress. I am smart enough to know that I cannot do anything without the authority of Congress. Mr. CASE. Oh, no. I was not attempting to impute any getting around the law. I was asking whether you wanted the R. F. C. to make loans out of their capital, or whether you were loaning your own money. Mr. MAVERICK. We are loaning our own money, Mr. Case. Mr. CASE. You stated yesterday that you asked the Budget for considerably more money than you received. In running through some of the papers here I was trying to find where the cuts were made. Was that reduction primarily with reference to your request for the money to make reports and give information? Mr. MAVERICK. No, sir; that was proportionally exceedingly small. The reduction was made because they did not consider the fact that there is going to be an end of war. It seems to have been done on a purely wartime economy, with no consideration of the operational phases of reconversion. OFFICE OF REPORTS ESTIMATE Mr. CASE. In your first statement of estimated obligations the only item that shows a minus sign is that of the Office of Reports. All the rest of them show plus signs. Mr. MAVERICK. Let Mr. Denit explain that. Mr. DENIT. The Office of Reports did receive a cut by the Budget Bureau. Mr. CASE. I do not care to go into the details of it. Mr. DENIT. That arose through the abolition of a centralized statistical operation which was located in Chicago, called the Industry Survey Branch of the Corporation, which conducted a running tabulation of all acts of assistance which the Corporation rendered. It was the Budget Bureau's opinion that the information compiled at that source was too late, once it was prepared, to serve any practical purpose. Accordingly, the Chicago set-up was eliminated. They did, however, permit some consideration by allowing for a hand tabulating operation for management purposes here in Washington. INFORMATION SERVICE Mr. CASE. Do you feel that it is necessary to have much of a publicity or information service to get small business to utilize your activities? Mr. MAVERICK. I think we have to have a reasonable amount; and I think this is very reasonable. Little businessmen haven't got commercial newspapers sent to them, and the Wall Street Journal and the Journal of Commerce, or the Kiplinger Service, and all those business columns and information services that come out of Washington. I believe that our information service is essential and I want to say to you, and I want this to go into the record, that when I first came there a huge sum had been put up for us by Congress. We asked it to be cut down ourselves. Nobody told us to; we were not cut down by the Budget or Congress. Was it not about a million dollars, Mr. Denit? Mr. DENIT. Yes. Mr. MAVERICK. A million dollars for information; and the S. W. P. C. was going to establish magazines and journals and all that. Gentlemen, you talk about publicity and public relations. We have good relations with all the financial and business journals, of which there are several hundred. All these business journals take the information from us and use it instead of our publishing independent maga zines and publications of all kinds. If you consider the amount we get for our Information Service-on salaries, and the amount we would have on printing-it would be a very small portion in comparison with what some Government organization might want to use with its own journals. We are using even country newspapers. We use private sources; it saves the Government money-it is sort of getting millions of dollars of free advertising. CERTAIN LANGUAGE USED IN JUSTIFICATIONS Mr. CASE. The press has credited you with a campaign to reduce certain bureaucratic language in correspondence, and so forth, and apparently the member of your staff who prepared your statement was thoroughly in accord with what you have been doing to get your message across to the American public, but he has not comported very well in connection with the request for additional publicity funds. He says in the general statement on page 2 [reading]: The Chairman of the Smaller War Plants Corporation has been able, to a great extent, through his own tireless energy, to silhouette the needs of small business in the minds of the American public. Mr. MAVERICK. All I can say is that you have not quite accused me of writing poetry. Mr. CANNON. I wish to express at this point the appreciation of the committee, and I think I represent the views of the entire committee, for the very complete way in which this justification has been prepared and put together. It is logical, it is comprehensive, and it supplies all the information needed. It is a very satisfactory presentation and we appreciate the form in which it is submitted to the committee. Mr. CASE. I think that the Chairman of the Smaller War Plants Corporation has done a very good job in getting his message before the public. Mr. MAVERICK. Thank you, gentlemen, very much. ADDITIONAL PERSONNEL REQUESTS Mr. CANNON. Turn, now, to the specific items in the bill. In your tabulation on page 5 I see that you request an increase of 12.6 man-years at a net cost of $111.230. However, as has been indicated, there is a reduction in the Office of Reports of 39.2 man-years, so that there is an actual increase really of 51.8 man-years in your other units. In the field personnel you request an increase of 60.3 man-years at a net additional cost of $198,014. Do you consider those increases justified by the increased burden placed upon your staff? Mr. MAVERICK. Yes, sir; more than justified. Mr. CANNON. On page 12, for the Office of Information, taking into account both the departmental and field services, you request practically double the personnel that you have this year. This year you have 18.1 man-years, and you are requesting for 1946 35.3 man-years. Why is such a large increase in percentage necesary? Mr. MAVERICK. I would like Mr. Denit to answer that question. Mr. DENIT. In connection with the regional part of that estimate, first, Mr. Chairman, we have added 14 stenographic positions, so that information may have proper clerical assistanct; and of that total increase in man-years, roughly 14.2 man-years would be in the stenographic service. Mr. CANNON. How has that been handled up to this time? Mr. DENIT. We have been trying to handle it by diverting stenographic help from other operations, and we have had some of the men punching typewriters themselves. But there is a good deal of correspondence work in connection with the work apart from writing news stories and that sort of thing, and the increase is quite justifiable. Mr. LUDLOW. On page 12 the increase relates only to salaries. I note on page 108 of the bill that your information item goes to $99,306 in 1945. Does that include something besides salaries? Mr. MAVERICK. Yes. That includes proration of all expenses. Mr. LUDLOW. That accounts for the differential between the two statements, one on page 12 and the other on page 108? Mr. MAVERICK. Yes, sir. NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES ON ROLL Mr. TABER. I am going to start right back at page 5 and will go down the line and try to see what I can find out. At page 5 of the justifications I see you have slipped in here the number of positions. I am going to ask you to tell me how many you have got on the roll as of the 1st of April in each one of these set-ups; that is, how many in the department and how many in the field. Mr. DENIT. Can we supply the answer for the record? Mr. MAVERICK. Yes; we have it here, but it will take a little time to find it. SALARY EXPENDITURES FOR CURRENT FISCAL YEAR Mr. TABER. How much money have you spent out of this departmental salary roll in 1945 down to the 31st of March? Have you got that figure where you can tell us about it? Mr. DENIT. For personal services through March 31 we have expended $4,499,078. Mr. TABER. That is in the departmental salary roll? Mr. DENIT. Departmental only? Mr. TABER. I was asking for the amounts separtaely. Mr. DENIT. All right. It is $1,149,961. Mr. TABER. In the field how much? Mr. DENIT. In the field, $1,830,113. Mr. TABER. That is as of March 31. That means a total expenditure of $1,499,078 for 9 months? Mr. DENIT. The amount stated includes $1.519,004 from the working fund that we placed at the disposal of C. A. S. for field administration when it was still operating. That amount is still not broken down on our books. Our total expenditures to March 31 for personal services however were $4,499,078. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. For 9 months? Mr. DENIT. Yes, sir. Mr. TABER. Did you get that money out of the appropriation that was made for this current year, or where did you get it? Mr. DENIT. That came out of the corporate working capital, and that was subject to a limitation of $10,000,000 set by Congress in the enpropriation hearings last year. Mr. TABER. There are figures here that I do not just understand. You have got in here $6,400,000, on page 5. Mr. DENIT. That is projected to the end of the fiscal year. Mr. TABER. Are you within your budget allocations Mr. DENIT. Yes, sir. Mr. TABER. Have you more people on the roll now than you earlier? Mr. DENIT. Yes. Mr. TABER. Why? had Mr. DENIT. The operations have expanded in the course of the year. Some of our operations were just on a skeleton basis. They were not accomplishing anything at the beginning of the last fiscal year, and we have expanded them to the point where they are producing. Mr. TABER. Have you found that figure so that you can give it to me now? If not, supposing I skip that and go along to the next number. Mr. DENIT. I can give it to you in this way. I can give you the total for the departmental service that was actually on the rolls, and the total for the field. Mr. TABER. I wanted it with the break-down. But I will come back to it. REGIONAL OFFICES, DISTRICT OFFICES, AND NAVY INDUSTRY COOPERATION DIVISION PERSONNEL Mr. TABER. There is one thing I do not understand. You have regional offices, district offices, and Navy I. C. D. What is Navy I. C. D.! Mr. MAVERICK. Industry Cooperation Division. Mr. TABER. Why would you need to carry that upon any substantial basis into the next fiscal year? Mr. DENIT. Mr. Taber, that is a reimbursable item. Mr. TABER. Reimbursable from them? Mr. DENIT. From the Navy; yes. We are charged with the positions, but then you will find that the amount of money involved is taken off at the bottom of the estimate on page 6. That is just done as a convenience to the Navy because of their inability to set up administrative machinery or hire people in the field locations where I. C. D. is situated. Mr. TABER. What do the people do that are on that roll? Mr. DENIT. They are on our roll in name only. They work for various commanding officers who are in charge of a Navy office. While they are physically located in Smaller War Plants Corporation offices they are doing a Navy program, not a Smaller War Plants Corporation program. They cooperate with us in screening Navy procurements that we want to put into small plants. Mr. TABER. That is an activity that you are not asking us to provide the funds for or permit you to use funds for. It is simply one that you operate through a transfer. Is that it? Mr. DENIT. That is exactly correct. Mr. TABER. And if the Navy's activities are cut down as far as ordering stuff goes, this would be cut down. Would that follow! Mr. DENIT. That would be a matter for the Navy. Just how they would adjust their operations to change over this function I do not know. |