Senator MAGNUSON. Twenty-five new ones, plus 27 over the 12. Mr. DIXON. It would allow us to attain our authorized 1,178 plus the 27 new positions requested for 1965. Senator MAGNUSON. And what else? Increased travel? Mr. DIXON. That is right, sir. Also the computer purchase. Mr. DIXON. Well, it would all be in personnel and necessary supporting expenses. OPERATION AT 1,178-POSITION LEVEL Senator MAGNUSON. That is where the $386,000 comes in, which would bring it up to the budget amount. Mr. GLENDENING. The budgeted increased of $1,055,250 less $171,000 for the new positions would allow us $884,250 on which we could operate at about the 1,178 level and purchase the computer. Senator ALLOTT. Well, the 1,178, for the sake of the record, and the 1,145 that you now have on board means that you are 2.8 percent under your allowance. Mr. GLENDENING. Under the allowance for personnel, that is right. But the salary costs have exceeded our original expectations. Senator MAGNUSON. All right. Now, we will leave the record open in case the agency wants to correct some of the compounded confusion here that the Chairman has injected as to figures. Maybe some of these figures are not exactly what we are trying to work out. If there are no further questions, we thank you very much. (The information referred to follows:) SUMMARY OF REQUEST TO U.S. SENATE FOR RESTORATION OF FUNDS, FISCAL YEAR 1965, FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION Senator MAGNUSON. Next is the Office of the President, Office of Science and Technology. Dr. Hornig is here with some of his staff. EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT OFFICE OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY STATEMENT OF DONALD HORNIG, DIRECTOR; ACCOMPANIED BY COLIN MACLEOD, DEPUTY DIRECTOR; DAVID BECKLER, ASSISTANT TO THE DIRECTOR; EDWARD WENK, TECHNICAL ASSISTANT; AND ROBERT BARLOW, TECHNICAL ASSISTANT HOUSE ACTION AND RESTORATION REQUEST Senator MAGNUSON. For the purpose of the record, your appropriations last year for 1964 fiscal were $880,000. The budget recommended $950,000, the House gave you the same amount, or a minus 70. Mr. HORNIG. That is correct. Senator MAGNUSON. We will put your appeal letter of May 22, 1964, in the record in full, and you tell us about the 70 because you have testified to general objectives in your Office previously. EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT, OFFICE OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, DEAR SENATOR Magnuson: I should like to request restoration by the Senate of the cut of $70,000 made by the House in the appropriation proposed for the Office of Science and Technology for fiscal year 1965. The sum of money involved is relatively small, but is very important to the operation of this Office. It represents 7-8 percent of the total request. The Office will begin the new fiscal year fully staffed at its maximium authorized strength of 34 permanent positions. The personnel and associated costs for the Office will thus be higher for the coming year than they have been during its first 2 years of existence while it was gradually building up to an effective size. There are also some very extensive and demanding new efforts in the offing for the next year. One of these, for example, is a study of environmental health problems, including a followup to the pesticides study. Another is an examination of the quality and effectivneess of major research laboratories supported with Federal funds. The role and responsibilities of the Office are expanding, and we forsee the necessity for increased consultant use in meeting these and other obligations. I feel that the total request of the Office is exceedingly modest and represents a rigorous minimum amount for effective operation, to the extent that even seemingly small cuts will prove detrimental. Sincerely yours, DONALD F. HORNIG. Mr. HORNIG. As you know, the Office is only 2 years old. It has been growing rapidly. But this calls for a very-actually a level budget, substantially, for the next year. What is involved in the 70 in the first place PERSONNEL HISTORY Senator ALLOTT. Excuse me, will you, sir? For the sake of the record, their total number of permanent positions-I think this ought to go in here before we get this all gummed up-in 1963 was 29, in 1112 1964 it was 34, and in 1965, it was 34. Your average number of all employees for the 3 respective years was 32, 40, and 40. Mr. HORNIG. That is correct. Senator ALLOTT. I am sorry to interrupt you, but I think this ought to be in at this point. PURPOSE OF REQUESTED FUNDS Mr. HORNIG. I would like to call to your attention the fact that of the 70 increase that we asked for, 28 of it is within this constant salary ceiling that results in part because we did not have all of them in for the full year, have not had the numbers. Senator MAGNUSON. The 82 for salary increases Mr. HORNIG. Twenty-eight is for permanent positions. The other goes with the personnel benefits, both for that item and positions other than permanent. Senator ALLOTT. I do not understand that. What page are you on there? I am on the "Object classification." Salaries and expenses. Mr. HORNIG. $28,000 are in permanent positions, $13,000 are in positions other than permanent. I will explain that in a moment. I am looking at the main items and the three items mentioned were item 12 here in personnel benefits, which goes with the previous items. So that in essentially the salary items within this fixed budget, we have $39,000 of the $70,000. We are faced with a desire, actually, for a growing number of activities within the Executive Office in the direction of getting first-class outside people, I mean to help us pull together these programs which go through many agencies and to get an objective view, particularly of the quality and objectives of what we are doing. This $13,000 positions other than permanent represents a very small increase in the use of outside consultants. This reflects in part the fact that the Office is only 2 years old, so it is still achieving its objectives. Now, the only other major item which you wanted to discuss at some length last time is $9,000 for the increase in our publication finances. SALARIES AND RELATED ITEMS Senator ALLOTT. You have $28,000 for the increase in salaries. Then you said Mr. HORNIG. That is right; $13,000 for the increase in essentially consultants, positions other than permanent listed. Senator ÁLLOTT. I am talking about permanent positions. You said $28,000 for that? Mr. HORNIG. That is right. Senator ALLOTT. Let us get these in order; $28,000 there. Then you mentioned a $3,000 item, did you? Mr. HORNIG. Yes, sir; I did. Senator ALLOTT. This is personnel benefits, you said? Mr. HORNIG. This is the employee's retirement fund, health and life insurance Senator ALLOTT. That brings us up to $31,000, then? Senator ALLOTT. Now add your other things. Mr. HORNIG. Well, $13,000 is the increase in positions other than permanent which is primarily increased use of this office. Senator MAGNUSON. $13,000 would be used for more consultants than the House figure would give you? Mr. HORNIG. Well, than our current-that is right. Mr. HORNIG. That is right. Senator MAGNUSON. That brings you up to 44? Mr. HORNIG. That is right; $5,000 is for other personnel compensation. This is essentially overtime. I think that I have one of the hardest working staffs in Washington. I think it is fair to say that my office staff never goes home before 8 o'clock in the evening. Senator MAGNUSON. Well, off the record. (Discussion off the record.) Senator MAGNUSON. But there will be $5,000 for that. INCREASE FOR PRINTING AND REPRODUCTION Mr. HORNIG. That is right; the other largest items are a $9,000 increase in our printing and reproduction bill. Senator MAGNUSON. This is not increased cost of printing, it is increase of printing. You are printing more? Mr. HORNIG. This has been mainly more; this is right. Mr. HORNIG. That is right; we do not regard in any sense putting out things like this oceanographic thing as a goal in itself. Nevertheless, we have felt that when we have done the hard work that goes into this, it should be made available to the Congress. We have hoped and I think it is true that these have been helpful to the many committees of the Congress that have to, in the case of things like these national programs, have to independently deal with little pieces of them. These reports make available to Congress the totals. Senator MAGNUSON. You felt the necessity of printing a little more than you have been printing? Mr. HORNIG. That is right; there are more areas of interagency programs in which Senator MAGNUSON. Well, you can assign more responsibilities in certain fields. Mr. HORNIG. Correct. Senator MAGNUSON. Now, that is $9,000. So you are up to $53,000 now. OTHER SERVICES Mr. HORNIG. That is right; and the other big one is $10,000 for other services. What this represents is that when we need staff studies, if I have some of these things, normally, we get, since we have a very small staff, the staff work is usually done by the aid of other agencies, but there are occasional studies, some of our studies where the staffs are not available in the other agencies, so we do occasionally contract out studies. It is a rather small item, as you know. Senator MAGNUSON. Now you are up to 63. If you cannot find it, we will go on the basis of 63. Mr. HORNIG. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.) Senator MAGNUSON. That brings you right up. You correct these figures in the record if you want. We shall leave it open. I have no further questions because we have to be up on the floor at 11 o'clock for a very, very, very important vote. So you can correct the record if you look at it on these addings. Mr. HORNIG. I just want to plead that this does not represent any increase, except for the increased use of consultants, which represents much harder work. Senator MAGNUSON. And fundamentally, you are keeping your personnel load the same as it was last year, but you do have some added costs of doing business with the same amount of people, due to congressional action in most cases. Mr. HORNIG. That is correct; and more is being expected. COMMITTEE RECESS Senator MAGNUSON. We are recessed until Tuesday at 10. (Whereupon, at 11:05 a.m., Friday, June 19, 1964, the committee recessed, to reconvene Tuesday, June 23, 1964, at 10a.m.) |