of Commissioners, reporting to them and following out such policies as the Board of Commissioners would decide upon.

Colonel HAYES. A Director, a Deputy Director, and three assistants. The Deputy Director would act with the Director, operating for him during his absence or when events made it necessary to work on a 24-hour basis, and would be primarily responsible for liaison with the heads of other departments in making arrangements for the coordination of the work with the adjacent communities of the metropolitan area, and for mutual aid with the various States.

There will be two assistants, one primarily responsible for planning, and the other for implementation; and an administrative assistant to handle the administrative load of such an office; and that load is going to be very large because this office must cooperate not only with all of the District departments but with many private interests and groups, and probably thousands of volunteers, even in the municipal phase of the development.

As assistants to this personnel there are provided a secretary to the Director, and two other secretaries, as well as a clerk-stenographer, a switchboard operator, and a draftsman.

The third classification of employees comprise a radio technician and a radio operator to install, operate, and maintain the radio equipment. Finally, there are two guards and two janitor-firemen.

I might point out that in any true emergency this staff would be very largely expanded, but generally when that expansion occurred we would expect a very large part of it would come on a voluntary basis from the citizen agencies, private concerns and private groups who are vitally concerned with any disaster relief plan that we might develop.

Mr. BATES. I notice in the hearing before the Senate, General Young said:

It has developed into what eventually will be a very large organization— speaking of the personnel

but I hope it need not be an extensive organization because the greater part of it, by far the greater part, will be out of the permanent personnel of the District, usually high-level personnel working in addition to their other duties, or volunteers from the civilian population of which there will be many. I do not foresee at present that there need be any large expansion of that latter.

It seems to me this is a rather large expansion.

I wonder if you could make some comment on the justification for what appears to be a rather large expansion.

Colonel HAYES. I might point it out to you by giving you a rough idea of what the civil defense organization comprises. There probably might be 30 or 40 fields of activity which would be cooperating with the civil defense head and the civil defense head would be responsible for developing a plan and implementing it in those various fields.

As we see it, every one of those 30 or 40 fields would be headed by some individual without cost to our plan. They would be headed, for example, by the Superintendent of Police, or the Fire Marshal, or the head of the Water Department, power company, gas company, etc.

Mr. BATES. I am wondering what has developed since General Young made his statement that has brought about the need for the great increase in personnel.

Colonel HAYES. We had envisaged a small, office of the Director with a couple of assistants and the secretary and messenger and that is about all. We thought we would give them a room up in the Municipal Center and they would work with the appropriate people in developing the plan. We did not visualize at that time the setting up of civil defense headquarters this year. We see now, gentlemen, where we are going more clearly, so that we now consider it necessary to set up this civil defense headquarters this year. Previously we had thought we would set it up at a later date.

RECRUITMENT OF STAFF

Mr. BATES. Why do we need a Director of Civil Defense, a Deputy Director, two assistants, an administrative assistant and the radio technician? They are all high-grade people, too. Will you comment on that?

Colonel HAYES. They are quite high-grade people. We need the high-grade people for several reasons. First the type of person we need for the job would not be available for a lower salary. Second, this Director of Civil Defense is going to be working with and to some extent supervising the operations of the agencies in the District Government who are themselves headed up by GS's 15 grades. These men will have to operate and work with practically all of the big concerns in town who are concerned with our daily operation, not only the transportation and communication, but the utilities, medical, and the heads of commercial establishments. They will be concerned with the details of securing materials, supplies, manpower, and equipment among other things; thus it is the sort of work that requires very skillful administrators and organizers. Also realize that the men who are developing and implementing this plan are the men who are going to coordinate our disaster activities in the event we are attacked.

Mr. BATES. How long will it take you to get the personnel?

Colonel HAYES. We hope to have these people within a month or 6 weeks of the time we get our appropriation. We are already doing over lists of appropriate people to fill these positions, and in several cases we have particular men in mind who would be appropriate for it.

DUTIES OF PERSONNEL

Mr. WILSON. Mr. Chairman, these administration to head up this civil defense comprising a director, deputy director, two assistants and an administrative assistant once established under those particular heads with defined duties, will never be retired. However, if they were listed as a Director of Civilian Defense and say four Assistant Directors or five Assistant Directors, such a plan would lend itself to reduction or increasing whichever the need may prove to be.

Also you have a radio operator and a radio technician. What is the radio operator going to do during the next 18 or 20 years of peace when we may not have any emergency? What will he be doing then except be a radio operator at leisure.

Colonel HAYS. On that particular question, once this equipment is installed, it will have to be operated and tested frequently over various periods. We are bound, as soon as we get our civil defense

organization going, in order to make it effective, to have certain tests of the equipment and the organization. When and where we will have to test is something to determine in the future, but as soon as this equipment is installed it must be checked and operated continuously in order to keep it in operating condition. It will require the services of the radio operator and the radio technician. One of each is the minimum, and they are going to have their hands very full taking care of all the testing of equipment that we will have; and if we have an emergency, they of course would never be able to handle it by themselves.

Mr. WILSON. That is what I was thinking, if the technician and operator were required to take care of it in peacetime as during an emergency other folks would come in and help and that would relieve you of part of that load.

I merely wanted to see if we could justify the use of it rather than set up another bureau that is going to be an ever expanding proposition. Mr. Bates and some of the rest of us have been trying so hard to balance the budget by doing away with nonessential expenditures, and it looks like we are originating new bureaus and additional expenses pulling us into debt more and more. Some of us are greatly

concerned about it.

VOLUNTEER PERSONNEL

General YOUNG. This also has a bearing on the question which the Chairman, Mr. Bates, raised. Mr. Young testified that in the last war they had a force of something like 80,000 people involved one way or another in civilian defense. The majority of those were volunteers, and the enormous majority of any new organization will be volunteers.

That is what I had in mind when I testified before the Senate, that there would be no great great numbers of paid employees. I had in mind we would not have to have thousands of men. But we are going to have a very large volunteer organization. We had 80,000 last time. Those people require a lot of coordination, and a lot of supervision. I admit that a staff of 17 is a large staff to administer $290,000 of activities, comprising principally the installing and operating of electrical equipment. But it is by no means a large staff to administer volunteer groups running into thousands or tens of thousands of people, who have to be trained, coordinated and so on. We feel that, as the headquarters of an organization of that scale, it is a very small staff indeed.

Colonel HAYES. This group, of course, will be responsible for coordinating all of our activities if we have a disaster. They will coordinate all activities of the Fire Department, Police Department, rescue, squad, and they will be developing plans ahead of time.

PERSONNEL NEEDED IMMEDIATELY

Mr. BATES. Are you providing headquarters for them out of this appropriation?

Colonel HAYES. Yes, sir.

Mr. BATES. Where will these people have headquarters?

Colonel HAYES. We will find space for them temporarily in the District Building or the Municipal Center, while we are preparing the Defense Headquarters.

Mr. BATES. How many will you hire when you get into the work? Colonel HAYES. Probably the only ones we will not need until we get our headquarters are guards and janitors.

General YOUNG. And we probably will not need radio operators until later on.

Mr. BATES. According to the justification these salaries are on an annual basis, are they not?

Colonel HAYES. That is correct.

Mr. BATES. Your testimony up to now is that it is going to be impossible to hire all of them for all of these units, is that right? Colonel HAYES. Yes, sir.

LOYALTY CHECK

Mr. BATES. Have you been exempted from hiring under the Classification Act? Colonel HAYES. We will be if our enabling legislation passes. Mr. BATES. Will Congress have any control in regard to salaries paid?

Colonel HAYES. Not except to the extent that we have given careful consideration to the appropriate grades for these salaries and they are our best idea of what they should be, and of course you control the appropriations.

Mr. BATES. What effort will be made to check the loyalty of these people if they are not subject to the Classification Act?"

Colonel HAYES. Our civil defense plan will obviously include much information of a classified nature and therefore it will be to our advantage to clear these men for classified material. The Director and staff probably will have to be cleared by the Federal Security Agency. In fact all of the top five will have to be cleared for top secret information.

USE OF CITY EMPLOYEES

Mr. BATES. Do you think, Colonel, that you will be able within a reasonable time to get the headquarters building ready for operation after you get the appropriation?

Colonel HAYES. The building itself probably will not be in operation as a defense headquarters for some months, but that would not affect the operation of these individuals who initially certainly will be working on the further perfecting of our plan and the developing of that plan to cover the metropolitan area.

Mr. YATES. Will any of the city employees in the respective departments be used in civil defense?

Colonel HAYES. Yes, sir, on a part-time basis. For example, any water plan we develop for civil defense will be developed by the Water Department.

Mr. YATES. How about radio installation, could and would you use city electrical employees for that?

Colonel HAYES. As far as possible it is our plan to employ and use the radio technician. One of his functions is to install that equipment.

PLANNING FUNCTIONS OF THE STAFF

Mr. YATES. Will it be the function of the staff that you ask for here to establish the plan or have your plan ready for operation once the staff is in and the installation is made?

69887-50-pt. 1—————6

Colonel HAYES. To use the simile General Young used-we have the bricks, the constituents that go to make up the plan. We have the police, the Fire Department, and so forth, and a plan covering 30 or 40 fields. That plan must be coordinated into an over-all plan. Instead of having 10 people planning to use Woodrow Wilson High School in case of an emergency, we must decide which one would use it and where the other nine will go. At present there are gaps in our plans; we have plans in many fields, but there are half a dozen fields where our plans are either nonexistent or inadequate. Those are phases which require a concentrated effort by a few high-level individuals, and those indiivduals have not been available so far.

Mr. YATES. In your conversation with the National Security Resources Board, do they have any sort of a plan that could be applied on a uniform basis to metropolitan areas?

Colonel HAYES. Not at this time they do not. As a result of the plans being developed now in Seattle and Chicago, they hope to be able to publish a manual in September which will be a guide to metropolitan areas. That manual to a large extent will be predicated on what we have accomplished so far, plus subsequent developments this summer.

Mr. YATES. In other words, you are taking a lead for the National Security Resources Board.

Colonel HAYES. No; we are not taking a lead for the National Security Resources Board, but we are taking a lead for ourselves. However, they are taking advantage of it. We are doing what we have done because we consider it necessary, not because the National Security Resources Board wants us as a model. But we work closely with them.

Mr. YATES. In other words, you are ready to go ahead now in the operation of your civil defense plan, and you are just asking these people to cooperate. Is that it?

Colonel HAYES. That is a hard question to answer. We have done a great deal on the development of our plan. We have a police plan, for example, which is quite good.

DEVELOPMENT OF THE PROPOSED PLAN

Mr. YATES. When you say, "We have developed a plan," who do you mean? Who has developed the plan? Which department of the District government has developed the plan? Who has done it?

Colonel Hayes. Well, the Commissioners called together a representative group of about 90 people who represented interests who would be concerned with civil defense, including municipal departments and private industries, and set up a temporary committee of Civil Defense with Inspector Fondahl as Chairman. That Committee divided itself into subcommittees which called on consultants in the respective fields such as consultants of the National Security Resources Board, the General Services Administration, and the Department of Defense. They have developed plans in each of these fields. Inspector Fondahl, for example, has headed the committee in the Police Department, as well as having the over-all responsibility for the committee as a whole.

Each of these committees has developed its own particular plan. In some cases the committee consisted of District employees as