3. The completion when necessary of the Hell's Canyon Dam, and all structures upstream from this dam on the Snake River watershed.

4. We urge that the Ice Harbor, Lower Monumental, Little Goose, Lower Granite, Lower Snake projects be delayed until such time as the afore-mentioned objectives are accomplished, thereby conserving a great portion of our fisheries resources for the people of the Pacific Northwest until their sacrifice is actually required by the over-all economy of the region.

The fisheries resources of the Northwest constitute an historical self-perpetuating source of wealth and an important part of the Nation's protein food production. Since more than one-third of the world's supply of food is derived from fisheries products we feel that this great resource must be saved for the people as long as it is economically possible.

The Pacific Northwest awaits the very important decision in this matter from Congress. Upon this decision depends the entire future order of development of the Northwest's water-use projects. We feel certain that there is a way in which the objectives of power, irrigation, fisheries, and other water uses can be met without the destruction of the Pacific Northwest's second greatest renewable resource through unwise exploitation of these water resources.

ICE HARBOR LOCK AND DAM

WITNESS

DR. O. LLOYD MEEHEAN, CHIEF, BRANCH OF GAME FISH AND HATCHERIES, FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF

THE INTERIOR

Mr. KERR. Mr. Meehean, we are very glad to have you with us in order that you may give us the views of the Fish and Wildlife Service, Branch of the Game Fish and Hatcheries.

We are considering now the appropriation for the Ice Harbor locks and dams on the Snake River in the State of Washington. We want to get the reaction of your Branch of Game Fish and Hatcheries concerning this project.

Dr. MEEHEAN. The Fisheries people are somewhat concerned over the construction of these main-stem dams at the present time, because of the fact that the lower Columbia fisheries program, which is in progress, has not gotten along as fast as it should have, and it is not at such a stage as to produce a large amount of results.

In the case of the Bonneville Dam, we have been successful in getting fish over that dam. The McNary Dam, which is under construction at the present time, is approximately half again as high. There is no experience at the present time to determine what will happen to the fish when they come to those fish ladders-how successful they will be.

Ice Harbor Dam is approximately the same height. As I remember it, it is about 100 feet. About 75 percent of the runs that go above McNary go up the Snake River. Of course, Ice Harbor is near the mouth of the river, and it presents an immediate obstacle to those fish. It means that until the lower Columbia River fisheries rehabilitation plan has had time to become effective, there may be a detrimental effect as a result of this dam to the migrating salmon.

you

Mr. KERR. Do you not get a normal catch of salmon now, just as did before we put those two dams in that you have referred to? Dr. MEEHEAN. The run of salmon since the construction of Bonneville and Grand Coulee, since the Grand Coulee program went into effect, has been approximately the same as they have during the period for which we have records of the runs.

But McNary, of course, has just been started under construction, and they will cut off the runs this fall for the first time. We do not know what is going to happen there, whether the fish are going to be able to negotiate those ladders or not.

As a result, the planning that is going on with the Corps of Engineers at the present time, in the event that it is necessary to take care of those runs, is to have emergency facilities available to handle them. We meet the same obstacle at Ice Harbor. We cannot predict what is going to happen at Ice Harbor any more than we can at McNary, because we do not have factual information or the experience. We do not know just what will happen. We do know that there have been some losses in fish at Bonneville.

They lose approximately 15 percent of the downstream migrants and a certain proportion of the upstream runs. We have been able to overcome that by increased operations, that is, hatchery operations, stream clearance, and transplanting of runs, to build up those runs so the mortality at McNary and Ice Harbor could be compensated for. This lower Columbia River plan is planned to do the same thing for McNary and these other dams that are being constructed. But it has not been in operation long enough to produce effective results.

The fisheries people have been hoping that some of these mainstem dams at least could be delayed for the time being, with the idea that the dams on the tributaries could be developed first in order to give the time necessary for the effective operation of this lower Columbia River fisheries development.

Mr. KERR. Has there been any complaint of the inability of fishermen to catch the normal amount of fish in the sound and in the ocean since they built these dams?

In other words, what is the use of having this fisheries program if the only people who can benefit by it are the men who fish and sell them? And if their business is as good as it was 50 years before we had any of these dams why is it necessary now for us to go ahead and build these dams and let fish go up them?"

Dr. MEEHEAN. The greatest catches of fish were made during the later part of the last century.

Since that time there has been a constant decline in the fisheries of that area until it reached a more or less constant level along about in the thirties. At the present time it is at a rather constant level. Each time we construct a dam we are pushing the areas where fish can spawn farther downstream. You will finally get to a point where it is a case of diminishing returns.

Mr. RABAUT. There are two things being done here. One is that you are trying to create new places for the fish to spawn, are you not? Dr. MEEHEAN. That is right.

Mr. RABAUT. How successful have you been in that?

Dr. MEEHEAN. Under the present program, we have not had time enough to determine that.

Mr. RABAUT. How long have you been at it?

Dr. MEEHEAN. The first actual construction took place during last summer, a year ago. It will take 4 years before we will be able to

assess the result of that.

Mr. RABAUT. You mean you only started a year ago with this? Dr. MEEHEAN. Yes. The first appropriation was in 1949, fiscal year. It took time to get out contracts and to get the machinery in operation.

Mr. RABAUT. How much money has been put into it?

Dr. MEEHEAN. There has been a total of approximately, for the two fiscal years, $2,040,000.

Mr. RABAUT. What I want to know is this: You certainly must have some hope for it to spend that amount of money; is that right?

Dr. MEEHEAN. We do.

Mr. RABAUT. But there is no way to find out until you get the return run on the 4-year basis?

Dr. MEEHEAN. That is right, sir. There are four runs within a cycle, so that to get an accurate measurement it takes about 8 years, plus whatever time it takes to get the construction under way and the facilities completed.

Mr. RABAUT. We have had some testimony before us that there have been some surprises in the take of fish since some of the improvements along the river have taken place. Is there truth to that?

Dr. MEEHAN. We have been able to compensate for the losses above Grand Coulee. The Grand Coulee you know cut off all the runs above that point, and we carried on a 3- or 4-year program of transplanting runs and building hatcheries, and so forth, to take care of that loss. That has been compensated for.

Mr. RABAUT. Have those hatcheries been successful?

Dr. MEEHEAN. Yes.

Mr. RABAUT. Is this the same sort of program you are doing here? Dr. MEEHEAN. This is the same sort of program that we are doing here, but there is one difference involved. If it should turn out that, as a result of the construction of the Ice Harbor Dam, we have to handle that complete run in hatcheries, it would be an impossible thing to do. In other words, there are approximately 274,000 adults running up the Snake River for spawning purposes.

It would be utterly impossible to handle that entire run in hatcheries or by transplantation if we had to do it as we have at Grand Coulee.

Mr. RABAUT. I thought you were trying to make a natural condition for them to go off the rivers?

Dr. MEEHEAN. We are.

Mr. RABAUT. You referred to that as a hatchery.

Dr. MEEHEAN. No; in addition to that, we are operating hatcheries. But, in the event that the fishway on the dam should fail to function properly, those salmon would be blocked below the dam, and in order to save that run we would have to take the adults into the hatchery, spawn them, and hatch them and release the young in the river.

Mr. RABAUT. I understand it now. We had one witness before us who said that on one of the falls up there these fish have quite a big jump, and they make no to-do's about that at all.

He said that really with these fish hatcheries we are building, as far as the treatment of the fish is concerned, we are making softies out of them. It there anything to that statement?

Dr. MEEHEAN. The salmon do at the present time negotiate Cellilo Falls. Undoubtedly, there is some mortality there, as there has been for some thousands of years.

Every time you put a barrier in the river you use up more and more of their energy as they go upstream. The experience on the Fraser River has indicated, if the salmon are held back for a period of say approximately 2 weeks, that even though the water conditions

might be right they would not be able to negotiate that barrier on the Fraser River because of the loss of energy at that time.

Mr. RABAUT. That is where we built those fishways?

Dr. MEEHEAN. Yes.

Mr. RABAUT. Those were built some years ago?

Dr. MEEHEAN. Yes, and they have been successful.

Mr. RABAUT. Under normal conditions we had losses with fish, so it is a little hard to judge it on a percentage basis. I remember some years ago when they put in a railroad they had a landslide and killed thousands of fish.

They could not get the river cleared in time, and they came back there and died there. Do you know about that?

Dr. MEEHEAN. That was in the Fraser River.

Mr. RABAUT. That was an accident, because it was a railroad operation, but those slides have taken place by nature in those rivers, the twists, and from time to time there must have been great losses of fish under natural conditions.

It is a little difficult that no one wants to do anything that is going to disturb this great natural resource. But, on the other hand, we have the progress that we face that seems to be somewhat necessary too. So, we have a two-edged sword here, and we are looking for information.

How long do you think this committee should wait before they can step into a problem of this kind due to the fish situation?

Dr. MEEHEAN. McNary will be completed about 1953 or 1954, as I understand it.

Mr. RABAUT. McNary is how high-90 feet or 100 feet?

Dr. MEEHEAN. It is just about 90 from the forebay of the pool. That is the distance the fish would have to travel in the fishways. McNary would be a test of whether or not fishways can operate effectively at that height. Ice Harbor is approximately the same height.

Mr. RABAUT. You feel then we ought to wait for the McNary? Dr. MEEHEAN. We can tell in 1 or 2 years' time after McNary goes into operation.

Mr. RABAUT. Is it going to take 8 years on McNary?

Dr. MEEHEAN. No; it will not. We can tell after 1 or 2 years after the dam goes into operation whether or not McNary will be effective. We can assess the losses over the dam, both ways, within a relatively short time.

Mr. RABAUT. The only other place we have fish ladders is at Bonneville?

Dr. MEEHEAN. Yes.

Mr. RABAUT. How high are they?

Dr. MEEHEAN. Fifty-eight feet.

Mr. RABAUT. Is there a study made of the fish; is there a fatigue condition noticed in the fish as they go over the ladders, as if they might give up going higher?

Dr. MEEHEAN. That is right. Our concern is with the late runs of fish that would come up to Ice Harbor, the ones that would spawn from Ice Harbor on up in the lower section of the stream. Those fish run about the time they are ready to spawn; that is, they come into that spawning area. At that time their energy is practically gone. They are in bad condition. They are covered with

fungus, and they are terrible looking things. Those would be the fish that would be lost at Ice Harbor or whatever dam there is.

Mr. RABAUT. Their resistance by the time they reach Ice Harbor is gone?

Dr. MEEHEAN. Yes; that is right-that is, the fish that would spawn normally just above the Ice Harbor section. The ones that would spawn way up the river would have lots of energy to negotiate the dam because they come in much earlier.

Mr. RABAUT. The later fish that come in do not go so far up the river as the others; they have to plan the distance that they have to travel, and then they come into an earlier period in the river, whereas the others come into the river at a later period and only go a shorter distance, but they seem to be more worn out, so they must go farther in the ocean somewhere. Is that it?

Dr. MEEHEAN. No; they come into the river later than the early runs do, and they lay in the river for a longer period of time. Mr. RABAUT. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. KERR. Suppose Ice Harbor is successful, what would you say about the three other dams which are being projected at a cost of millions of dollars in this group of dams in the Northwest?

Dr. MEEHEAN. I do not exactly get your question.

Mr. KERR. If Ice Harbor is completed and is successful, how well will the fish do with the other dams?

Dr. MEEHEAN. Nobody in the fisheries field will stick his neck out on a prediction of any kind. They feel there is a point somewhere along the river where those fish are going to be worn out and where the end result will be negligible; in other words, it would not be worth while to go ahead with any developments.

We have no way at the present time of gaging where that end point would be.

Mr. KERR. It might be successful at Ice Harbor and not be successful at the others?

Dr. MEEHEAN. That is right. If Ice Harbor is constructed and the runs are successful in going over, we will have an additional gage to predict to a certain extent what will happen at the next dams.

These two dams are higher-that is, McNary and Ice Harbor-than any dams we have ever put ladders in before, and nobody is experienced on that.

Mr. KERR. This is merely an experimental job that you are launching into now in respect to putting these ladders into Ice Harbor? Dr. MEEHEAN. That is right. We think they will work, but we cannot state definitely.

Mr. KERR. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. TABER. You have to have fast-running water?

Dr. MEEHEAN. Yes; to spawn in.

Mr. TABER. And not still water that you get in the backwater of a dam?

Dr. MEEHEAN. That is right. If four dams are constructed on the Snake River, the area from the lowest dam to the end of slack water will be lost as a spawning area, because the salmon cannot successfully spawn in stagnant or slack water. That area would be wiped