Mr. JENSEN. $62,900 is providing an awful lot of money to build a two-room frame constructed school building. Mr. GREENWOOD. It is only 90 cents per cubic foot, which is a rather reasonable rate, Mr. Jensen. Mr. JENSEN. I used to build schools like this 24 cents to 25 cents. Mr. GREENWOOD. We did too, some years ago. Mr. JENSEN. Has it gone up like that? Mr. GREENWOOD. Labor is tremendously high, of course, and lumber is still high. Mr. JENSEN. I would not think they had advanced 300 to 400 percent. Mr. GREENWOOD. In addition to the two classrooms this building will contain a workroom and a dining room and kitchen facilities. Mr. JENSEN. In the basement? Mr. GREENWOOD. No; probably on the first floor. It is to serve noonday lunches. PAYMENT TO THREE AFFILIATED TRIBES, FORT BERTHOLD RESERVATION, N. DAK. Mr. JENSEN. Now going to the $7,500,000 to pay the Three Affiliated Tribes of the Fort Berthold Reservation for land to be taken for the Fort Garrison Dam and Reservoir: On what basis have you figured this expenditure? What height of the dam have you based these figures of $7,500,000 on? You know there was a controversy about the height of that dam. I visited that dam site, with some others several years ago and also saw the land that is to be inundated. It is going to make quite a difference in the amount of area that will be inundated as to whether the dam is built as high as the Army engineers want it to be built, or at a height that some folks in North Dakota and some other officials want it to be built. Mr. GREENWOOD. I think it is about at elevation 1,830 feet-with a maximum of 1,850 feet. Mr. JENSEN. That is right. On what basis, that is, on what height have you based the amount involved in the payment for this land? Mr. GREENWOOD. Mr. Jensen, the land area to be taken was not determined by the Bureau of Indian Affairs. It was determined by the Corps of Engineers, and there was $7.5 million Mr. JENSEN. (Interposing) It must have been at the 1,850 foot height, if it was determined by the Army engineers, because that is the height at which they wanted to build the dam. They wanted it built at 1,850 feet, and if it is only built at 1,830 feet it will only inundate much less land. They probably want the land under Government ownership, so that at some future time if they desire a higher dam, or decide before its completion that the dam should be built at the higher elevation, that would take care of it. Mr. GREENWOOD. That is correct. COST OF LAND Mr. JENSEN. Do you remember about how much we are paying per acre for that land? Mr. GREENWOOD. The appraisal has just been completed on both the tribal land and the individually owned land to be taken. There are about 155,000 acres in the reservoir area, and the appraisal totals $3,723,312.30, and that averages $18.99 per acre. Mr. JENSEN. That does not seem to be unreasonable. Mr. Chairman, I have no more questions to ask. The only thing I would like to add is this statement, that as one member of the committee I certainly support the statement the chairman just made about bringing in deficiencies at this late date, when the Bureau had plenty of time to bring these things in, or most of them, while the committee was still in session considering the regular appropriation bill. I know that for this kind of construction it just does not take very long to draw up plans and figure out the costs. I could have done the whole thing myself in 2 days and have given you an estimate just as good, or maybe better than this estimate, drawing the plans myself. I am not an architect, but I could have done it, and I have done it. It would not have taken more than 2 days, and with your crew you could have done it in one day. Mr. GREENWOOD. Mr. Chairman, there is one other factor that enters into it, and that is that we have no control, of course, on the timing of the submission of deficiency estimates. We do not determine in our bureau when a deficiency estimate is going to come before your committee. Mr. JENSEN. No, but you could have got to work on replacing these buildings the day they were burned. You got notice of it and you could have sent men out there and determined in a very short time what kind of buildings you wanted to build to replace the destroyed buildings. You could have put your engineers on it, and you could have had this up here easily in a week. Mr. GREENWOOD. I am not disputing that. The point I am making is that had we immediately after the fire made the estimates, and estimated the amount of money that was needed to construct these buildings, the deficiency estimate would have had to go through the Budget Bureau. Mr. FENTON. Well, it seems to me that the buildings have to be built. Mr. GREENWOOD. They have to be built, yes. Mr. FENTON. There is no argument on that. I have no comment to make except they do have to be replaced. Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes. Mr. FENTON. I want to ask you about this $7,500,000. Do I understand that is in addition to the $5,105,625 appropriated for the Army engineers? Mr. GREENWOOD. That is correct, Dr. Fenton. Mr. FENTON. How far do you think that will go? Mr. GREENWOOD. No payment has been made as yet. The $5,105,000 has been transferred to the credit of the tribe, and under the act of October 29, 1949, the money is available for paying for the value of the land. The appraisal has been completed by the Board of Appraisers that was required to be appointed by the act itself. Now, the appraisals are to be submitted to the individuals concerned and the tribes for acceptance or rejection within 90 days. If they reject, the Corps of Engineers can then go into Federal court and institute condemnation proceedings but doubtless in most cases the appraisal will be accepted. HEIGHT OF DAM Mr. FENTON. Mr. Jensen mentioned something about the height of the dam in controversy. I thought that was finished business, so far as Congress is concerned. Did we not pass on the greater height to be established? Has that not been definitely settled? Mr. JENSEN. The Bureau of Reclamation and the Army engineers have not yet come to any agreement. The Army engineers' argument has been that it should be at the 1,850-foot elevation, but, if you remember, our beloved collegeague who passed away recently, Mr. Lemke, questioned the legality of that finding and was sustained by employees and officials of the Bureau of Reclamation, so actually I am quite sure that it has never been definitely determined. Mr. FENTON. I was under the impression that was what we voted on in the House, and that the greater height had been established, which would have taken much more land, of course. Mr. NORRELL. Mr. Greenwood, although you have covered this before, I would like to have you repeat the reason why this estimate was not included in the estimates that we had in the spring while we were considering the general appropriation bill. Mr. GREENWOOD. The reason was that the fire occurred after the regular budget had been prepared and submitted. There was a time factor that entered into it. Mr. NORRELL. In other words, you were not quite ready; you did not have all the data that you needed in order to submit the budget estimate? Mr. GREENWOOD. That is correct. COST OF LAND Mr. NORRELL. Now, with respect to the $7,500,000 request, have you stated for the record what you are paying for the land in question? Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes. Mr. NORRELL. If not will you state the range, from the minimum to the maximum per acre? Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, we have stated that the average cost per acre is $18.99. It ranges from $2 an acre for grade three-marshy areas, poor pastures and sand bars-to $65 an acre for grade one, cropland with good topography and drainage and in or capable of good production. Mr. NORRELL. What is the assessment, if they assess the land in that area, that is, for the land that is valued at $65 an acre? Mr. GREENWOOD. The tax assessment? Mr. NORRELL. Yes. Mr. GREENWOOD. This land is Indian land and is tax exempt. Mr. GREENWOOD. A good part of it is, yes. It is very valuable land, right along the river. Mr. NORRELL. Are you satisfied with the value that has been stated? Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes. Mr. NORRELL. That is all, Mr. Chairman. Mr. KIRWAN. Anything further, gentlemen? Mr. FENTON. I just want to add in reference to the inundation by reason of the higher dam, that it is going to destroy-I forget how many millions of fine irrigation land that has already been improved by the Bureau of Reclamation-I think it is some $10,000,000. Mr. NORRELL. One further question: Is there somebody who is going to get a profit out of the sale of this land? Mr. GREENWOOD. No. The act, Mr. Norrell, that authorized the appropriation of the 71⁄2 million dollars provides that no part of the funds can be paid to any agent. Mr. KIRWAN. Thank you very much, gentlemen. FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE WITNESSES JOHN R. GARDNER, CHIEF, BRANCH OF BUDGET AND ADMINISTRATIVE MANAGEMENT. SETON THOMPSON, CHIEF, BRANCH OF ALASKA FISHERIES. CONSTRUCTION Mr. KIRWAN. In House Document No. 640 there is also a supplemental estimate for "Construction, Fish and Wildlife Service, the amount of $110,000 to provide funds for the replacement of buildings and facilities completely destroyed by fire on St. George Island, Alaska, and for alterations and equipment of a vessel obtained from Army surplus, to replace the tender Penguin, rendered inoperable by fire, which fires occurred on June 3 and June 8, 1950, respectively. Mr. Gardner, will you present the justifications for this request? Mr. GARDNER. Mr. Chairman, this estimate, in the amount of $110,000 supplemental for construction for the fiscal year 1951 is submitted at this time because of two different fires, both occurring last month. One occurred on St. George Island, the smaller of the two principal islands of the Pribilof Islands, on June 8, which destroyed the buildings used for washing, blubbering, and curing fur sealskins. The other fire occurred on June 3, at Seattle, which gutted the tender Penguin used between Seattle and the Pribilof Islands. As soon as we could get an estimate together we submitted it to the Department and it was submitted to the Bureau of the Budget, on the 29th of June, I believe, and subsequently transmitted by the Budget and printed in House Document No. 640. You will note from the detailed statement that we are proposing the alteration of a vessel secured from the Army, which is only 5 years old, as compared with better than 20 years old for the Penguin, and it will only cost $50,000 for alterations to outfit this vessel to make it suitable. To repair the Penguin would have cost, it is estimated, $75,000, and we still would have had a vessel 20 years old. Mr. KIRWAN. Is that all, Mr. Gardner? Mr. GARDNER. Unless you have some questions. Mr. KIRWAN. I only have this comment to make about fires. I have often wondered why there are not more fires in these out-of-theway places. Right in our own city, and almost every other place, they have everything needed to protect us against fire hazards, and yet we lose hundreds of millions of dollars every year from fires. Now this fire happened only last month. You could not have gotten the figures together any more quickly, so under the circum stances I have no complaint about the submission of this estimate which is actually of an emergency nature. ALTERATION AND EQUIPMENT OF VESSEL OBTAINED FROM ARMY SURPLUS Mr. GARDNER. This vessel, if I may add, Mr. Chairman, is in very good condition. The $50,000 is requested to make it suitable, by alteration, for regular use as a tender for the Pribilof Islands. Mr. KIRWAN. I am glad to hear it is in good shape. Mr. GARDNER. I would like to stress that it is an emergency matter brought on by the fire. Mr. KIRWAN. Yes; I believe I was on the vessel that goes to the Pribilofs when Mr. Jensen and I went to Alaska. And the boat we went up there on may have been this same boat. In any case, I do not think anyone ought to have to make ocean trips on boats of that kind. I think anyone in the Service is entitled to better accommodations than were available on the old boat. Mr. THOMPSON. This vessel will be required to make some five trips per year between Seattle and the islands. Mr. JENSEN. Without denying the need for the vessel, it seems to me that from our moth-ball fleet they could have given you fellows about what you needed without having to make alterations of any kind. But here you come in and ask for $50,000 to alter a surplus vessel. I am wondering if that $50,000 could not have been saved. I do not suppose there is any chance of talking the Navy out of a boat under present conditions, but $50,000 looks like a lot of money to fix up a boat. That boat must be in pretty good shape if it is only 5 years old. What do you have to do to it? Mr. THOMPSON. This is for alterations. Mr. JENSEN. What kind of alterations? Mr. THOMPSON. This is one of the vessels that was built for the Army's use and primarily for cargo carrying and contained quarters only for the crew. In the operation to the Pribilof Islands the boat will have to make at least five trips, and we will have to transport our own personnel by water. We have to transport as many as 35 passengers during the summer on each trip, and local workmen are recruited each summer in the native villages along the Aleutian chain and must be transported to and from their homes in this vessel. This fire occurred on June 3, and to make the trip on June 10, to get there in time for the opening of the sealing season on about the 20th of June, we took over this vessel and had it ready to go about June 15th. That did not give us much time to get the vessel in shape, it had been laid up for several years. As a result we did have engine trouble, and had to go in for some repairs, but the major job is getting it ready to accommodate passengers. We expect that a large part of this will be done by contract, probably exclusively. I think it should be done in 1 month. Mr. JENSEN. Are you going to advertise for bids? Mr. THOMPSON. Yes. Mr. JENSEN. How big is this boat; about 150 feet long? |