Senator CUMMINS. Do you know whether the operators have reduced the quantity of coal shipped to New York?

Mr. MEHLICH. That absolutely must be.

Senator CUMMINS. Why is that-because they can not get transportation?

Mr. MEHLICH. That is what they claim.

Senator CUMMINS. Who claim? That is, the operators claim that?

Mr. MEHLICH. The operators claim that; but here is the point, Senator: You can buy coal in New York-there is no question about it-from the speculators, but the mines will not sell it to you.

Senator CUMMINS. That is what I am getting at. The operators claim they can not get transportation?

Mr. MEHLICH. Yes, sir.

Senator CUMMINS. But if you are willing to pay them a higher price than quoted, then you can get the transportation?

Mr. MEHLICH. Then you can get it. That is the point. That is just the thing.

Senator CUMMINS. What is this premium they are insisting on now? How much is it?

Mr. MEHLICH. Why, anything they can get for it. The premium to-day is from $2 to $2.50 a ton above quoted prices.

Senator CUMMINS. Do you know how many operators there are in the anthracite region?

Mr. MEHLICH. I can not state that, no; I do not know positively. Pardon me, I have seen this statement, though, in the papers in New York, I believe from the Department of Commerce, that there have been mined during the month of May, 1,600,000 tons more anthracite than last year. Where has that coal gone to? Where is it?

Senator CUMMINS. That is the reason I asked you whether there had been coming into New York as much coal as formerly during like periods; that is, during the month of, we will say, March, this year, did more coal come into New York than during the month of March of the year before?

Mr. MEHLICH. No, sir.

Senator CUMMINS. Why not?

Mr. MEHLICH. I do not know. The coal yards have not got it. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. There ought to be some available figures on that subject.

Senator ČUMMINS. Yes; I think there ought to be. You believe, then, evidently, that there is a combination among the operators which either restricts the output of coal or make such arrangements as to get a higher price for coal?

Mr. MEHLICH. Absolutely, sir; without any doubt.

Senator CUMMINS. Do you think the coal dealers in New York are parties to that agreement or arrangement, whatever it may be? Mr. MEHLICH. I do not believe so; not the retailers; no, sir. Senator CUMMINS. You think they are acting independently? Mr. MEHLICH. Absolutely.

Senator CUMMINS. Do you think they are acting fairly with the people of New York?

Mr. MEHLICH. Absolutely; because the statements my dealer made the other day, when I was down to see him was-he said, "I have

got a large amount of capital invested in this building," he says, There are my order books, my horses standing idle, my capital invested. Do you believe it would pay me to let them stand idle if I could get the goods?"

Senator CUMMINS. Are they asking a greater profit for their coal now than they did formerly? Are they getting more out of it? Mr. MEHLICH. Somewhat, probably, perhaps; yes, sir.

Senator CUMMINS. Do you know how much more?

Mr. MEHLICH. I could not state that.

Senator CUMMINS. I think you mentioned one coal dealer who made a profit of a million dollars in a year.

Mr. MEHLICH. That is one of the largest-Burns Bros.

Senator CUMMINS. And they have also declared a stock dividend? Mr. MEHLICH. They have declared a stock dividend of 25 per cent. Senator CUMMINS. That would indicate pretty good business, would it not?

Mr. MEHLICH. It would.

Senator CUMMINS. Dou you think the coal that that firm handles, that the operator or the dealer in New York got the bulk of the advance?

Mr. MEHLICH. I did not catch that question.

Senator CUMMINS. You have suggested that the coal dealers were all right?

Mr. MEHLICH. Yes, sir.

Senator CUMMINS. And that the difficulty was with the operators? Mr. MEHLICH. Yes, sir.

Senator CUMMINS. Now we find one coal dealer has made an immense profit, at least during last year. Did the operators who sold him the coal make an equal amount?

Mr. MEHLICH. No, sir; they did not. This one particular coal dealer in New York, as I stated before, in my opinion, and in the opinion of the other people in New York, is favored by the Lehigh Valley Coal Co., and they virtually have to-day, I believe, a monopoly on the coal business in New York, probably 40 to 50 per cent of the business is controlled by them.

Senator CUMMINS. We do not want you to specify any particular person, because we ought not without sufficient evidence to injure them.

Mr. MEHLICH. Certainly, I do not want to do that.

Senator CUMMINS. But your impression is that there exists some sort of arrangement between the coal dealers and the operators, and it takes both of them to bring about this injustice to the people of New York?

Mr. MEHLICH. Oh, yes; somewhat. I believe the coal dealers of New York are guilty of some wrongs; there is no doubt about that. I believe that.

Senator CUMMINS. Have you investigated the cost of mining coal in the anthracite region-do you know anything about that?

Mr. MEHLICH. Personally, I do not. I believe it is around $1.55 a ton, as I was told; something like that.

Senator CUMMINS. What was coal selling for in New York a year ago the 1st of April?

Mr. MEHLICH. My contract last year was $4.30 for pea coal, egg coal $5.75, and stove coal around $6.

Senator CUMMINS. In each instance the coal was delivered in your bin?

Mr. MEHLICH. Put in the bin. To-day the same prices are as follows: Pea coal, $7.25; egg coal, $8; and stove coal, $8.25. Those were yesterday's quotations.

Senator CUMMINS. And even at those prices, I understand you to say that many people are unable to get coal without paying a premium?

Mr. MEHLICH. No; I could not buy any egg or stove coal; there is none to be had.

Senator CUMMINS. Do you think if you offered $10 or $15 a ton you would get it all right?

Mr. MEHLICH. Yes; certainly. Then I could probably get it.

I guess that concludes about everything I have to say. It is up to you, gentlemen, to see that we get some relief. Unless we do, as I stated before, I think there will be increasing discontent of the foreign element.

Senator CUMMINS. There is one question more I want to ask you. Two of you gentlemen have said that the coal dealers in New York had made arrangements among themselves not to take on any new customers?

Mr. MEHLICH. Yes, sir.

Senator CUMMINS. Then when a new customer comes along how does he get any heat?

Mr. MEHLICH. I do not know. If he pays a high price; if he pays an advanced premium.

Senator CUMMINS. He has to bid then and pay a premium?
Mr. MEHLICH. That is the point.

Dr. KORN. We have one or two more speakers, Mr. Chairman. The ACTING CHAIRMAN. My dear sir, your 15 minutes, which the committee has allowed you, is more than up. If there is any statement you want to submit, we will be glad to have you submit it in the form of a brief.

Dr. KORN. We want to submit a list of prices in 1908 on coal until 1916, actually paid by consumers.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Where did you get those figures?

Dr. KORN. By actually paying the bills for coal delivered to our people.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Those figures represent your own individual experience?

Dr. KORN. The experience of the people in New York from that date-1908-until 1916.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. That statement may appear in the record. (The statement referred to above is here printed in full, as follows:)

STATEMENT OF MR. LEO STRAUSS, NEW YORK CITY.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. The committee will now have Mr. Leo Strauss give his views. What is your business, Mr. Strauss? Mr. STRAUSS. Importer.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. These figures, which have just been submitted by Dr. Korn, were they taken from sales rendered from coal dealers?

Mr. STRAUSS. Yes, sir; prevailing prices at those dates, from 1908 to 1916.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Mr. William E. Davis is present and desires to be heard.

STATEMENT OF MR. WILLIAM E. DAVIS, COMMISSIONER OF LIGHT AND HEAT, CLEVELAND, OHIO.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. What is your official connection with the Cleveland city government?

Mr. DAVIS. Commissioner of light and heat.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Briefly, what are your duties?

Mr. DAVIS. My duties are to supervise the activities of the division of light and division of heat under public utilities.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. How long have you been in that position? Mr. DAVIS. One year and a half."

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. And your duties have enabled you to become familiar with the price of coal and other fuel in Cleveland and thereabouts?

Mr. DAVIS. They have.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Go on in your own way and give us the benefit of such information as you have on that subject.

Mr. DAVIS. I wish to confine myself, gentlemen, to a few cold and undeniable facts. To do that I desire to recite the history of our division, and that of other divisions of the city for the last six months, during which time most of the trouble has happened. We came here, Mr. Neal, the director of finance, and myself to investigate and, if possible, assist you to cure the situation. We make no charges. We are frank to admit that we do not know where the responsibility lies, but that it does exist to a very great degree and that it can be cured.

The next census of Cleveland will show, with its suburbs, 1,000,000 people. The public utilities, the division of water, and the division of light are nontax supported institutions. They are self-supporting in every detail at present, and the aim and object of this agitation that we have taken on is to keep them self-supporting and prevent a further burden upon the taxpayers, because it has got to come from somewhere if we can not meet operating expenses; so, gentlemen, we are here as a matter of self-preservation alone.

The division which I represent that of light-last year made an honest and legal substantial profit in its operations. This year we are faced with a very serious deficit. You must remember, gentlemen, that the grocer can change the price of his commodity overnight. Our prices are fixed by public sentiment very largely, and there is no need of increasing the price of our commodity, of our public utilities, providing this sitaution can be reasonably met.

The division of water has over 40,000 services. The division of light has practically 20,000 services. The division of heat has several hundred services, a minor item. Coal, in the production of water, is about 70 per cent of the cost. In light, at the present time, it is 75 per cent of the material cost. I am speaking now of physical cost, not overhead or depreciation or fixed charges, but actual operating cost. That figures between 90 and 95 per cent, and particularly at the present time, of course, that curve rises as the price of coal rises. The heating of the city, of the homes, I would judge 80 per cent is by natural gas from the West Virginia fields. Last winter, during zero weather and below zero, the gas obsolutely failed. There was no gas. The commissioner of light and heat had to borrow coal by the wheelbarrow load to burn in his open grate to keep his family from freezing or else leave town, and thousands and hundreds of thousands of others were in the same condition. Coal, just at that time, was at a prohibitive price.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. State the price.

Mr. DAVIS. Domestic coal was as high as $10 a ton; steam coal was as high as $6.50 up to $7.50, which we paid for it at that time, due to a certain fact which I shall be pleased to relate.