ENERGY CONSERVATION IN PIPELINE SYSTEMS

Mr. YATES. What do you mean by the phrase which I find in your justifications "new initiatives related to pipeline systems"?

Mr. HELLER. I would like John Brogan to address that.

Mr. YATES. Mr. Brogan?

Mr. BROGAN. Yes, pipelines fit in our non-highway-transport program.

Mr. YATES. And carrier pigeons?

Mr. BROGAN. We have not hit that yet.

In fiscal year 1976 the request under the heading of "Pipeline" is planned to accomplish a number of things. One is to assess the actual energy consumed in pipelines in this country. That is No. 1.

Frankly, we do not know how much energy is consumed nationwide by pipelines. We do not have a credible and consistent data base. For example, we are not aware of the energy consumed throughout the United States in every municipality to pump water. Nor are we sure of what the sources of pumping energy are. We do not know whether small turbines or internal combustion engines or diesels or what not are being used.

So No. 1 is to provide a consistent data base.

No. 2 in that effort is to understand what others are doing and planning to do, industry and possibly any other Government units that would be working to reduce pipeline energy consumption.

Three, is to define a program, if there is a vacuum existing there, a program by which sensible R. & D. can be conducted to reduce the pipeline energy consumption.

Mr. HELLER. We do have information on some of the projects we are working on. Perhaps you would like to see that as well.

Mr. YATES. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Brogan.

Mr. HELLER. These are some of the ongoing projects.

THE STIRLING ENGINE

Mr. YATES. What is the Stirling engine?

Mr. HELLER. An external-type combustion engine different from an ICE which permits you to burn any type of fuel, nonpetroleum based or petroleum based of any quality.

Mr. YATES. Can it be used in an automobile?

Mr. HELLER. We are developing it. Actually a Stirling engine has in part been developed. It is relatively old in concept but it has not come forward as a competitor with ICE until quite recently.

Mr. YATES. I don't see steam on your list. Is the Stanley Steamer still dead?

Mr. HELLER. From all indications steam doesn't seem to be a com

petitor in the race.

Mr. McKAY. Stirling using what?

Mr. HELLER. Kerosene, olive oil, if you like, or ethanol or methanol. Mr. EVANS. Wood, coal?

Mr. HELLER. You could use almost any kind of fuel. You just simply have to design an appropriate furnace in the system. You could use the lowest octane rating gasoline without any problem.

TRUCK DRAG

Mr. YATES. What does truck drag reduction mean, streamlining? Mr. HELLER. Streamlining the truck; that is right.

Mr. YATES. Is streamlining that important?

Mr. HELLER. That is quite right. Actually, from what I understand, and John Brogan can talk in more detail, some of this is going on now to a very limited extent. We want to broaden that base and begin to have our truck drag reduction information translated for the trucking industry, and to demonstrate the operating savings to be gained by streamlining trucks.

Mr. YATES. Do you build trucks yourself or buy truck bodies!

Mr. HELLER. No; we are working with the Mack Truck Corp., for example, to develop such systems, just as one illustration.

Mr. YATES. Did you want to say something, Mr. Brogan?

Mr. BROGAN. Yes; I might add something to that. It appears that based on all we know about this subject today, there is about a 20-percent improvement in fuel economy with certain of these devices added to the long-haul diesel trucks that you see on the highways.

Mr. YATES. What kind of a device?

Mr. BROGAN. They are shapes to improve the aerodynamic flow from the cab to the body behind it. You know there is a step, in fact, there is a big void between the cab and the body usually, a couple of feet. A lot of turbulence is built up in that region which tends to retard the motion of the vehicle. In general these types of devices are sheet metal, structurally sound sheet metal, for example, that is added or applied to the top of the hood of the cab where the driver sits, to get the flow to move smoothly over the top surface of the cab without, if you would, smacking into the front of the load.

It seems simple enough, and you have got to wonder why in Heaven's name if it is so simple why wasn't it thought of before? Well, it has been thought of before, but the material has been presented in obscure technical journals, presented in forms which the trucking industry, fleet owners, truck owners, the Teamsters Union and independent operators simply have not been exposed to nor do they understand the technical jargon, so it is a matter of pulling together here all that has been done in the past, filling in any gaps that might exist, demonstrating on perhaps a fleet of trucks, with and without these shields, identical conditions, to show the trucking industry what benefits there are from relatively cheap devices.

Mr. EVANS. Will the gentleman yield?

Mr. HELLER. With the trucking industry.

Mr. BROGAN. Yes, in particular with Mack trucks.

ENERGY CONSERVATION SAVINGS TO THE YEAR 2000

Mr. EVANS. The column on the right shows money required to achieve savings in millions. Is that the total amount between 1977 and the year 2000 or is that this year's budget?

Mr. BROGAN. That is an estimate of the total amount through the year 2000.

Mr. EVANS. It is a guesstimate?

Mr. BROGAN. A guesstimate at this point in time.

Mr. HELLER. The purpose is to try to estimate if you undertake to do a research project, what you think the cost would be to complete that project, knowing fully well as you develop new information that it could either be considerably less or more, but it gives you some idea of the order of magnitude with respect to the project that you are submitting for approval.

INDUSTRY ADAPTION OF NEW ENERGY TECHNIQUES

Mr. EVANS. Mr. Chairman, this again is another example of a thing that is hard for me to understand. Here we have a technology in West Germany that is available to utilities here. Yet we are talking about building an American pilot plant to show Americans in the English language what is being done. Here the Mack Truck Co. has been in business for an awfully long time, and they are making hopefully efficient machines for the trucking industry. This chart shows they could have a savings of what, 20 percent?

Mr.HELLER. That is right. The estimates are about 20 percent. It would seem to me, if I might

Mr. EVANS. Why hasn't this taken off and flown? I have heard what you said but I don't like what I heard. Are they just sitting around not addressing the problem?

Mr. HELLER. I don't think this is necessarily the case. I think we do have a role to provide support, to use a term, to be a catalyst in the system where perhaps existing technology hasn't taken off, and to assist in translating it, and to assist in penetrating that market. I think that is a very significant role.

Mr. EVANS. I think these are two illustrations where I am a little ashamed of American industry for not having done it on their own, from what I hear here.

Mr. McKAY. If the free enterprise system is what they claim it is, and every company is squeezing every dollar out, and there are dollar savings to be had there, it seems incredible they wouldn't have squeezed them out if the technology is what you say it is, to make those extra profits for the stockholders.

Mr. HELLER. Some areas move more slowly. It is a question of judgment. All of these are optional decisions that one makes when you have a certain amount of capital to deal with. What we are trying to do in some areas is to encourage the transfer of technology into the system, wherever we possibly can, where there is a reasonable chance for savings, and economically attractive, and be part of the industry-Government team to accelerate the reduction of the wasteful use of energy in as short a time as possible. This is how we see it. We see it as something we ought to be doing now. Perhaps certain parts of industry may not see it as quickly as we do. Our job is to work together and to face it together to see to it that demand is reduced, in whatever areas it is possible to do it in, and in as short a time as possible.

THE WORLD ENERGY CONFERENCES

Mr. EVANS. I can't for the life of me see why the American utility companies haven't gone to West Germany on their own. Maybe I just don't understand the problem. The same thing is true of aerodynamically efficient trucks.

Mr. HELLER. I am sure American utilities have gone to Western Europe and examined what is going on. You know the World Energy Conference has been held recently in Detroit. There have been two or three of them. Another one is to be held in Istanbul, Turkey. There is a great exchange on the international scene as to what is going on but the translation of that information into the marketplace, is a question of timing and feasibility. I just wanted to get that point

across.

Have you seen the reports of the last World Energy Conference held in Detroit? Perhaps if I can get a copy for you, you might find it very helpful, to see the kinds of exchanges going on.

Mr. EVANS. I think I need help.

Mr. HELLER. I would be glad to provide that information. I have copies of my own. I will see what I can do.

Mr. EVANS. You can see from our standpoint, it is our ignorance. If something like that can help we should have the information. I am talking about appropriating funds for certain projects, and we have to make decisions too.

Mr. HELLER. Yes, I understand.

WORLDWIDE ENERGY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT

Mr. YATES. You raise a very interesting point. The energy crisis is not limited to the United States. Japan in particular is undergoing one. All the Western European countries are undergoing crises. They are all highly industrialized. Are they making the same kind of effort that we are? Dr. White nods assent for the record.

Dr. WHITE. Certainly we have some exchanges with them in specific areas. I think I mentioned coal gasification earlier and we are working with the Germans and the U.K. in this area.

Mr. YATES. Are they ahead of or behind us?

Dr. WHITE. Of course the Germans have a history going way back, but certainly in terms of advanced technology, it seems to me they are behind us, from what I have seen.

Mr. YATES. Are they spending as much as we are?

Dr. WHITE. No, nowhere near our expenditure levels.

Mr. MCKAY. What is happening with this Fyfe project in the U.K.? From what I hear, they are ahead of us.

Dr. WHITE. You referred to that I think last week. Isn't that the one at Westfield?

Mr. McKAY. Are Westfield and Fyfe together?

Dr. WHITE. This is really essentially a joint effort now. The current test there is a slagging gasifier, gasification which would increase the capacity of a coal gasifier now used commercially in West Germany four or five times which would lower the cost. This looks like a substantial advance and one which I am sure we will want to move over very quickly into further application in this country if the current tests prove successful.

Mr. McKAY. How long has that project been going on?

Dr. WHITE. This was started conceptually at least a year and a half ago. The operation has only been in the last 2 months.

Mr. McKAY. When did you get into it?

Dr. WHITE. ERDA!

Mr. MCKAY. Yes.

Dr. WHITE. I think we were invited to have an observer role. I don't think we actually have any money in that particular one. This was a consortium of private companies that put this together under the leadership of Continental.

Mr. MCKAY. There is an energy institute out in California that has been working with it.

Dr. WHITE. Yes, they are involved in it. It is really very important and everybody is watching it with great interest to see how it goes, and reports are coming out now, or just beginning to.

Mr. YATES. Are they spending relatively the same amounts as we are in energy, or is every other country depending on us to take the lead?

Dr. WHITE. I think in terms of total expenditures on energy R. & D., we are spending many, many times what the others are, but of course they are spending in certain areas, the French, for example, on nuclear, the Germans and English on coal, the Poles are spending on coal.

Mr. YATES. Are they the same types of projects in which we are engaged?

Dr. WHITE. Generally the same sort of thing. We are trying to stay with them.

FUEL CELLS

Mr. YATES. You are requesting $4 million in budget authority and $3,870,000 in outlays for improved conversion. What are some examples of what this program will do? Some examples of 1976 efforts:

Include development of low-cost readily available materials compatible with various heat sources, and verification of technical economic performance of components and systems such as fuel cells.

I am not sure I understand how this would work.

Mr. HELLER. Our activities involve the development of a fuel cell. I mentioned when we talked about that previously our relationship with industry in helping develop a 4.8-megawatt fuel cell, which would act as essentially a peaking device, an energy storage device. Mr. YATES. Can the fuel cells be used for the electric car?

Mr. HELLER. At this stage?

Mr. YATES. At this stage; no, obviously because you would be using them.

Mr. HELLER. I mean as a potential. I don't see it as a reasonable potential for the next 25 years.

Mr. MCKAY. Does it take off from the fuel cell used in the space Moon shot?

Mr. HELLER. Right, it is a takeoff. We are examining the use of molten salts, and by the use of compressed air as potential energy storage devices. These are some of the activities this program addresses itself to.

CAPITAL EQUIPMENT

Mr. YATES. You are requesting $400,000 for capital equipment. What kind of equipment is involved, and where will it be located? Mr. HELLER. John Brogan will talk about that if you don't mind.