Mr. ZWICK. I think that is the way to start, really, and work on those two. Senator MONRONEY. Then we can criticize that and maybe find we want it organized a little bit better, and then refine it, and ask for other agencies, and get samples of those. Once we get a pattern, you won't have to go through this thing every year then. We will have a set pattern, and we know the accounts, and we will be interested, then, in getting it into an understandable format. That is all I am saying. This is sort of like a managing editor striking out this stuff that he feels is unnecessary or surplus to the story, and to get the lead, the important facts, at the front, and dribble down to the less important facts to where you cut those that are minutiae. Mr. Zwick. I would strongly support the notion of doing it with a couple of examples first. STARTING WITH POST OFFICE Senator ALLOTT. The Post Office would be a good place to begin. Senator MONRONEY. You have a private operation. One of the things we are talking about is this investment budget. We appropriate $5,700 million. That is charged as an expenditure. To the average person that goes into the why-don't-they-cut-down-Government-expense category. You never know what the cost of the Government is. So this is actually an expenditure of Government tax money, and you have other business operations, and this would give us a good idea if we study this one out, because of the large income that comes in. When I explain to people back home that this is not a $5,700 million waste, it is the necessary cost of the service, and the service brings in $5,300 million. POST OFFICE BUILDING FUNCTIONS Senator ALLOTT. A typical example of what occurs, concerns the transfer of the building functions of the postal department from GSA to the postal department, and I guess there is authority for it. They have supplied us with legal authority, and I guess there is authority for it, although I don't agree with it. But what this means is that in order to adequately supervise GSA construction programs, we have to get the postal service construction program inserted in our independent offices hearings in order that we can say, "Well, what is the Federal Government doing in this total area?" This is the reason I was opposed to it. Before, we had it all in one chunk, where we could look at it, and there were so many post offices and Federal buildings, and so forth. Now, I asked, and they have put it in, apparently--we have had to ask them to put this for the second year now into the independent offices record in order that we can compare what the postal service is doing in postal construction. Otherwise, we will never control it. STANDARDIZED WORKING PAPERS Senator MONRONEY. Along that same line, Mr. Kappel, formerly head of A.T. & T., is Chairman of the Presidential Commission looking over what to do about the Post Office. The first thing he started on was the buildings. He wanted to know about that, and I gave him the fact that we build a 50-year building that has modern equipment and is updated, and so on. And I said: If you built that A.T. & T. plant for Western Electric for $10 million, how would you write it off? He said: Fifty years, if you would provide it as an asset on your bookkeeping side and then a liability, but the expense is 150 per year. I told that to the Western Electric people in Oklahoma City, where they had a plant, and they were amazed we would keep books this way. They thought we were idiots. I don't care how we keep a final set of books for the Treasury or the Bureau of the Budget. I think this overall, comprehensive, 10,000page system may be all right. But what we want is working papers. If we can get working papers that are standard and mean what they say in every department, our job would be tremendously improved, I think. Do you agree? Senator ALLOTT. Oh, yes. Senator MONRONEY. Do you have any further questions? STATE OF THE ECONOMY Senator ALLOTT. I would like to ask you just one question, which is not on your appropriations. Did you have an opportunity to read page 107 et seq. in the U.S. News this week on the general financial situation? Mr. ZwICK. No, I did not. In fact, it is on my desk. It came in yesterday. Senator ALLOTT. I commend that to you because it is quotations from bankers in America and bankers in Europe. Mr. ZWICK. Out of the conference in Puerto Rico? Senator ALLOTT. Yes; page 106. It didn't come to my attention before we had Secretary Fowler before us the other day. In fact, it didn't come to my attention until yesterday afternoon. But it follows closely in line what I was trying to bring out with him. I think we do have some major problems ahead of us. I hope that we can face up to them in Congress. Mr. Zwick. This is generally the problem, the need for the tax increase and the problems of maintaining the value of the pound and the dollar in international trade. Senator ALLOTT. Yes; also, it brings in the franc. BUDGET PRESENTATION IMPROVEMENT: SUBCOMMITTEE DESIGNATION Mr. HUGHES. Senator, on the question of where we go from here: I would suggest that under somebody's auspices, we have a meeting of perhaps Mr. Betts (Treasury) and maybe Ralph Nicholson (Post Office) and whoever else would be appropriate from the Post Office with our examiners and your staff. I would be glad to be there to help launch the enterprise. I think it is highly important. Senator MONRONEY. I would like to, if possible, appoint a subcommittee, which I think I have the right to do, of Senator Case, Senator Allott, Senator Yarborough, and myself to confer with the full committee, and at least go through the preliminary critiques of what we think we need. If we can establish it in our subcommittee here, we might do so in the others. Senator MONRONEY. Mr. Zwick, we thank you for coming up. This is the reason why I wanted you here, and I appreciate your changing your schedule. CONCLUSION OF HEARINGS The subcommittee will recess subject to the call of the Chair. (Whereupon, at 11:20 a.m., Wednesday, May 29, the hearings were concluded, and the subcommittee was recessed subject to the call of the Chair.) |