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I believe that you will agree with me that the bill must be amended in the House to make these things possible. The above legislation cannot be complete until some measure is enacted that will make the above possible. Very truly yours,


Director, Division of Environmental Health. Mr. PERKINS. I am hopeful the committee will make it possible for sanitation, sewage, and waterworks to be constructed where we do not have any sanitation plants at the present time in so many mining communities throughout the whole Appalachian area. That is the

. case in eastern Kentucky, and I know in West Virginia and other areas.

I am certainly hopeful that you can modify that provision.

There is another, thing that I would like to call your atention to and that is section 201 (d) of H.R. 4, the Appalachian regional development bill. That empowers the States to give special preference to the use of certain mineral resources that are abundant in the area. Preference is given to the construction of highways.

would suggest the language be added that has been proposed by Paul Blazer in his letter to the chairman, Mr. Jones.

I suggest a substitute provision as follows:

In the construction of highways and roads authorized under this section, the State may give special preference to the use of materials produced, or manufactured, in the Appalachian region.

I particularly mention that because there are industries like Ashland Oil in eastern Kentucky, where other industries could be given preference. Companies that we have in these areas that are more or less marginal anyway, we think their products certainly should have some preferential treatment. We think that is nothing but fair. That carries out the intent of this bill, and we certainly hope the bill will be amended.

I do not want to take up any more of the time of the committee. I certainly want to thank the chairman and the members of the committee for letting me appear first.

I want to ask unanimous consent that my remarks be revised and extended in the record.

Mr. JONES. Without objection, it is so ordered.

We know of your great intesert. Your suggestions will be taken under consideration.

Mr. PERKINS. I hope the committee will consider water, sanitation, and the other change that I suggested.

Mr. Jones. It would not be right to talk about Pennsylvania unless we had Mr. Flood.



Mr. Flood. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

. As, of course, you know, I am not unknown before this subcommittee, or this committee and related subjects in the past 20 years. I did testify at some length on this bill last year.

I would ask unanimous consent, therefore, referring to the act of 1964, and the hearings held at that time by your Ad Hoc Subcommittee on the Appalachian Regional Development, that my statement beginning at the bottom of page 457 and going to the bottom of page 464 be included in this record, and that will permit me for a minute or two to devote myself entirely to the mining aspect of the bill. I think that is what you have in mind.

Mr. Jones. The statement that appears in the former hearings will be made a part of the record.

(The statement referred to follows:)



Mr. FLOOD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. FALLON. Mr. Chairman, I would like to welcome Mr. Flood here because about 20 years ago Mr. Flood and I came to Washington together and he said to me yesterday, “Of course, it is a sad occasion when any of our Members are defeated but you have served an apprenticeship for 20 years and you might be entitled to some consideration next year."

Mr. Davis. I agree with Congressman Flood; you have served your apprenticeship and now you are about to be the chairman.

I am glad to see both of you came here 20 years ago. It is my hope that you will be here 20 years more.

Mr. FLOOD. I hope you get your hope, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. FALLON. Mr. Davis is always a generous hoper.

Mr. Flood. I might say to my distinguished colleague from Maryland, Mr. Fallon, that not only do I congratulate him on the approach of his assumption of the chairmanship of the full committee but I congratulate the committee, the Congress, and our country upon their good fortune that he will assume that position, with the grace of God.

Mr. FALLON. Thank you, Mr. Flood.

Mr. Flood. Mr. Chairman, my name is Daniel J. Flood. I am a Representative in Congress from the 11th District of Pennsylvania. That is centered in the northeastern part of the State. It is the heart of the anthracite coalfield of the world, certainly of this country. I believe that the United States of America has become adult. I see increasing evidence of that. We are but a young country, vis-a-vis the nations of the world, but there is increasing evidence that we have matured and your consideration of this broad and sweeping legislation with its purpose and goal is additional and abundant evidence to establish that fact; if there were no other, this would do it but there are many others as well.

The serious consideration which you and the Congress are giving to it increases that certainty.

I do not intend to presume this morning, after your extensive hearings, to discuss the broad philosophy of this fact, the social implications and economic implications, and so on. I will be more parochial. I shall, in the few minutes that your great lack of time permits, talk about those provisions that will have to do with mines and mining and with particular reference to the anthracite, and even with more particular reference to my district, which is in the center of the anthracite.

As you know, the anthracite coalfields of this country rest in pockets in long, narrow valleys in perhaps a dozen counties of northeastern Pennsylvania. Mine is the richest and the biggest in the potential, the history of production and in the existing production, and in the coal resources untapped, perhaps for 200 or 300 years there is abundance of this hard coal.

However, coal is no longer "king," as it was in the economy of my area. Fifteen years ago there were 40,000 men working in the coal mines in my area. Today there are 4,000, and most of them are in what is known as strip mining. That is a shocking figure, but it is a fact. The reasons for this are not before you today.

I have appeared before this committee down through the years in connection with specific bills, single pieces of law, in which we have all tried to do something about the economic problems of these distressed, so-called distressed areas, these areas of chronic structural unemployment.

I think you will be happy to know that you have contributed greatly and done much to help us. When I first came here the unemployment caseload was 18 percent, if you can imagine that, 18 percent. The national average at about 5.5

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to 6 percent. We were at 18 percent. It was unbelievable that you could live that way. Today we are about 8 percent. Much of the law that you passed here helped us do this, but I want to assure you this: We began this ourselves. This was, in the very best American tradition, a home rule operation. We did not wait for Harrisburg or Washington to give us a handout. Every man, woman, and child at all levels in my area themselves got together.

This is where Operation bootstrap was born that you read about in the great national magazines and the press; this is where it began. This is where the industrial de pment funds under chambers of commerce, this is where management and labor and all elements of society joined together themselves to help themselves, and raised their own money by bonds, and by outright gifts, and by payroll deductions. We have raised millions of dollars. But there was a saturation point and we knew we could not succeed without the help of the State, Harrisburg, and without your help here at the various levels in Washington. We have received that from the State, we have received that from you here in Washington.

This trilogy of the active, dedicated leadership, inspired at the local level with their own money in this, hand in hand with the State and the Federal Government have given this Nation a classic example of how this job can be done.

I offer you exhibit A for the Appalachian program to the other States who are worse off than we are but where they have not done what we have done and they must do what we did to be entitled to help from the State and from you. You can bring them to us and we will be glad to show them. But we have a long way to go. Eight percent is bad. The national average is 5.5—that is bad. I do not know what good is. Maybe 212 to 3 percent. Five and a half percent is bad. Eight percent in my district is still very bad. But we are over the hump now.

What are the bad things? We have for 100 years in my area sown the wind economically and we are now reaping the whirlwind. When your Nation was young and virile and growing by leaps and bounds and in a hurry "to get there last night" when America was the growing, great, strong, young thing that it was, it was reckless as young people are. It dissipated itself and its assets as young people do in their enthusiasm, in their vigor, in this rush. We forgot about the future. Your committee knows all about this. All over the Nation it has happened. But in the mines it could not be worse-it could not be worse. There is nothing worse than what happened in the mining areas as to what a Nation did to its natural resources and the area in which God placed them.

There are many reasons for this. These are historic and I will not presume to recite them to you. The fact remains that they exist now. Why? I am not here as an apologist. I am presenting you with a fait accompli and to develop the Nation from now on, we need this help.

Mining is a term abhorred by economists. Mining is the taking out of something and the putting back in of nothing. Economy abhors that. But that is what happened in my country. We had a single industrial economy; that is a curse, When the mines went we were destroyed. Why they went is another problem, but they went.

In addition to that, we were cursed—if a single industrial economy was not bad enough we were cursed with absentee landlords. We did not own what we had. So, we were raped and destroyed, underground and on the surface, for a hundred years. Now something must be done. That the State did not do what it should have done for a hundred years by law and the enforcement of whatever laws it had, there is no doubt. That the Federal Government did little more there is no doubt.

So you, sir, and your committee have it all in your lap. This is one way you can help. Because of mining and the bad part of mining as well as the good part there are vast areas of mine districts which are honeycombed, miles and miles of square miles and hundreds of square miles of underground honeycombed mine workings, most abandoned.

Only Almighty God knows what is down there and we will never be able to find out, I suppose, now. They are caved in from natural disaster, natural movement and voids being filled by pressures of movements, from the influx of water, our deadliest enemy in mining operations, surface water coming in for many, many reasons. Much of that water got in there because of the bad surface conditions that existed through these years.

All these things have multiplied now to this existing evil. And we see for the first time a recognition by the U.S. Government that there is some kind of responsibility here to succor and aid these areas, on the surface and in the ground. We need your help for surface support. The technicians said they could do something about this by flushing operations.

By the way, every one of these programs that you propose in your bill, sir, are now going on. These are not new ideas. The State and the local governments are doing these things now. In my hometown of Wilkes-Barre just a month ago, under a Federal aid program, a mine drainage bill before another committee, 50 percent is Federal, 50 percent State. We are engaged in a million dollar mine-flushing project in which we are flushing mine refuse with water and pressure into the mines under certain parts of my city to support the surface. This is one program we want you to help extend. We have never asked you for this before.

This is not a stunt. This can be done. It is no trick. This is not some bright idea of some long-haired joker in the bureaucracy of the Federal or State Government with nothing else to do. The mining men know what to do and this is one program. This will give us surface support and underground support in these voids by flushing and other means. This can be done.

In this way we can kill two birds with one stone. We take these ugly, these fantastic, what we call culm banks—you know them as refuse banks, slag heaps in other areas—we call these culms. These are gigantic molds and bumps on the face of our area. Esthetically revolting, they are of no value. They have been worked over. These can be flushed into these mines. These areas can be recovered for economic development, industrial sites, housing, recreation areas, and whatnot, that you all know about. So we kill two birds with one stone there.

Then we have outcroppings of the hard coal, a distinct combustible because of its carbonic content. All over the hills and forests lightning strikes the forest, there is a forest fire, or negligence creates a forest fire for some reason or other, many ways. You know how they start. It ignites the outcrop. An outcrop is a surface showing of a coal vein. Some of you know where they are but some do not. But when it ignites it catches fire and it burns. The veins burn on the surface. Then they go underground and they burn. There is a desperate condition adjacent to my town of Wilkes-Barre known as Laurel Run Borough were the fire has been burning for 45 years. It is so bad and so desperate now that the technicians are not sure what to do about it. We are proceeding to spend a million dollars again, half Federal, half State. The application is now on the desk of the Chief Counsel of the Department of the Interior. We are sure it will be approved, to make cuts to the side of this hill to find where the fire is, to see if we can backfire it with sand barriers.

In the evening along the side of this mountain you can see the glow of this fire. This is glacial area. The surface of my hills and valleys look like your windshield if it were struck with a rock because this is the glacial history, a badly fragmented surface.

The reason is parenthetically because we have denuded our forests, we have destroyed our forests for mine props in a hundred years. The great North American hardwoods, expensive, desirable, needed in the market, are all gone because they are underground for a hundred years keeping up the surface as mine props.

The result is if the glass of water on the table spills out of my hands it goes down the valleys into mines, a double or triple evil.

In this bill you can help them with reforestation. I had one of the greatest timbering, the best dollar-producing timbering area 50, 60, 70, 80 years ago in the world in these mountains of northeastern Pennsylvania. This could be done again under proper forest management as you people do it. This could be done under your bill. Should be. And a great employer of men, and it is men I need to employ. This is one thing you can do for us separate and distinct from the mining. These fires have to be reached somehow. The fumes are deadly. They destroy property, take the paint right off the side of the buildings or your home. With my mustache I would not dare walk through there. It would be burned off in no time at all from the fumes. This would be a great loss. But these are the dangers. It is a danger to health, welfare, safety, happiness of the population. You can do something about that.

We have these vast culm banks I spoke about, these refuse heaps have become ignited by spontaneous combustion. They have been there for generations. Deep within them are various grades of coal which years ago there was no market for because of the mechanical problems of using coal. This was pure coal of various sizes which had become ignited mostly by spontaneous combustion, some by vegetation igniting on the surface and burning through. There are raging furnaces in the bowels of these great heaps. This has to be destroyed. It, too, produces the most horrible and dangerous sulfuric gas and fumes to the area affecting safety, welfare, happiness of the entire community. It destroys property. This is no figment of my imagination. These things can be observed simply by going by. Something has to be done.

There are many of these banks that are not on fire. Something has to be done. What do you do about these horrible things that are on fire and are not on fire, both? Under this bill you can do it. We are trying to do that now. We have an application for $500,000 being examined under the technical aid program of the Area Redevelopment Administration with $150,000 raised by local contribution, $200,000 from the State, approved law.

To show you that this is not a handout operation, $350,000 we are producing. We are asking for $400,000 technical aid from the Federal Government to attack a specific culm bank fire that is one of the worst in the country. We know that this can be done. This is no stunt. That is why we come unhesitatingly recommending these programs.

Another thing concerning your committee greatly is clean streams, water. By the grace of God we have the most magnificent water tables in the United States through this area, not only my area but through the entire Appalachia. By the grace of God the rainfall itself is magnificent, a great bounty from heaven. So, water in the tables underground and from the skies is not a problem. To preserve its purity and to control it and handle it is.

In the mining regions you have acid mine water which for generations has been seeping into the streams. What does this do to your fish, your wildlife programs, your conservation programs? If this is cleaned up as it must be, and we are engaged in this program at the State level and have been—the answer is difficult. There is no answer at Federal, State, or technical level to this problem today. Nobody knows the answer to this one. We are all trying. We want you to help us try. There will be no clean streams in northeastern Pennsylvania until you do. We need Federal help. The Government has recognized the program in other areas. This is not duplication. This is arrival. We will do our share locally and at the State level. Shutting down the mines won't help. The seepage will go on for generations. It can't be controlled by just shutting off cavities. You can help this.

So this, Mr. Chairman, is generally and very briefly and very broadly a very narrow facet of this vast program that you have before you which in itself magnitude for 8 or 10 States will certainly be for the first time in my experience an intelligent and proper approach to a program which is a challenge to the entire Nation.

In this sense it is not parochial. In this sense there is no one person, no one Member of Congress in any one State who can say this does not concern him. Every Senator and every Congressman for generations voted happily—I have for the Interior Department acts to give succor and aid to a dozen States in that part of the country that needed special aid at the time they needed it. We have the old Eastern States that did this in a sense of national well-being. We are sure you will not deny us now for parochial reasons.

Thank you very much.
Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Congressman Flood.

All of us know that there is no man in the country who knows more about mining and its difficulties than you from the standpoint of production, safety, distribution, and so on. You have spoken eloquently and to the point and factually. You have been very, very helpful.

Mr. Fallon ?

Mr. FALLON. Mr. Chairman, I would just like to reiterate what you have just said about the testimony that Mr. Flood has given the committee this morning.

Mr. Flood, I want to ask you one question. Is residual oil a competitor to hard coal?

Mr. FLOOD. Yes. Any oil is a competitor to hard coal. The historic use of hard coal has been for many, many years primarily domestic heating consumption. The advent of all elements of liquid and gaseous fuels have taken the markets. Of course, we have not been without fault, but the chief problem in the loss of our markets has been the advent of liquid and gaseous fuels, so that in the industrial areas where we still have some markets the dumping of residual fuel oils from offshore areas is an enemy to what industrial markets we have left; yes.

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