Mr. MCALPINE. No. Mr. HARNESS. Oh was it 1940? Mr. MCALPINE. It was in December of 1940. We had gone on with these conditions from 1937 up until 1940. Mr. HARNESS. You formed the association in 1940? Mr. MCALPINE. That is right. Mr. HARNESS. And after a short time the company recognized you for bargaining? Mr. MCALPINE. That is right. Mr. HARNESS. At that particular time in 1940 when you formed this organization there was a provision in the constitution of the United Mine Workers of America which in substance provided you were not eligible to join that organization? Mr. MCALPINE. That is right. Mr. HARNESS. And in the contract with the United Mine Workers that they had with the operators there was a provision that you were not eligible to belong to the union, was there not? Mr. MCALPINE. That is right. Mr. HARNESS. When was the constitution of the United Mine Workers amended striking out that provision? Mr. MCALPINE. About October of last year at their convention that was voted on by the rank and file of the United Mine Workers and it was adopted at their convention in Cincinnati. Mr. HARNESS. That was brought about by your organization? Mr. MCALPINE. It was brought about by the possibilities of the two unions being formed in the coal industry and the coal operators, I am sure, and no doubt Mr. Lewis, saw the possibility of two unions in the coal industry and in the coal industry there is only room for one. Mr. HARNESS. The thing that I do not understand is why the United Mine Workers deemed it advisable to have such a provision in their constitution up until last year. Mr. MCALPINE. Well, for this reason. The rank and file of miners never wanted to belong to an organization where the bosses would come in and mingle with them and it was always very much stressed by the delegates to any convention, and when it was put over to show that we could have an independent set-up within the United Mine Workers through affiliation and not be there with them at all, they approved of it immediately. Mr. HARNESS. If you accomplish this purpose that you are endeavoring to accomplish the United Mine Workers will do the bargaining for you, won't they? Mr. MCALPINE. That is right. Mr. HARNESS. They will be bargaining for you as well as the rank and file? Mr. MCALPINE. Yes, sir. Mr. HARNESS. Aren't your interests in conflict as supervisory employees? Aren't they in conflict with the rank and file? Mr. MCALPINE. Mr. Congressman, every member, every man that works in the mine, regardless of whether he is a rank and file miner or a supervisory employee, recognizes that John L. Lewis is the greatest bargainer there is in America. Now, he goes in there bargaining for the rank and file. He carries out the policy adopted by the rank and file of the miners. He goes in and bargains for the terms that they sanction. The supervisory employees will also do the same thing. We will draw up demands or draw up a wage scale and we will present them to John L. Lewis as the man to present them and bargain with the coal operator, but we will make up the provisions of that negotiation. Mr. HARNESS. I see. That is all. Mr. FENTON. Mr. McAlpin, as a fire boss, did you have to take any special examination? Mr. MCALPINE. Yes, sir; I did. Mr. FENTON. What kind of an examination? Mr. MCALPINE. I took a written examination which was supervised over by three mine inspectors of the State of Pennsylvania. Mr. FENTON. It was a State examination? Mr. MCALPINE. A written examination which lasted 1 day, and then after passing that examination I was called back and went through 1 day of oral examination. Mr. FENTON. That was under the direction of the State of Pennsylvania? Mr. McAIPINE. That is right. Mr. FENTON. Well, now, do you consider yourself as a fire boss to be a State official? Rather, did you consider yourself as a fire boss to be a State official? Mr. MCALPINE. No, sir; I did not. Mr. FENTON. And yet you had to carry out the provisions of the mine law? Mr. MCALPINE. That is right. Mr. FENTON. Now, in your capacity of fire boss, have you ever had to measure the velocity and quantity of air, and so forth? Mr. MCALPINE. Inside the mine, no. The law definitely states that the work of the mine foreman who in the morning when we went inthe reason why I said we counted the revolutions of the fan was in order to see just about how much air was going in. Mr. FENTON. How did you know that if you were not supposed to measure the air? Mr. MCALPINE. You can tell by the revolutions of the fan. You see, it was a steam fan and you can count the exhausts and you know exactly the revolutions a minute. Mr. FENTON. Were you ever a miner yourself? Mr. MCALPINE. Yes, sir. Mr. FENTON. How many years did you mine? Mr. MCALPINE. As an actual miner at the face, digging coal, I will say a year and a half. Mr. FENTON. What is the provision of law for being an assistant foreman? Mr. MCALPINE. To be an assistant foreman 5 years' experience in the mine. Mr. FENTON. Well, now, you would not mean to tell this committee, Mr. McAlpine, if you found something wrong in the mine that you would not record it in the record and report it? Mr. MCALPINE. I would not. Whatever I found in there I put on the book. Mr. FENTON. The reason I asked that is that the quotation you made is certainly rather far reaching and it is a rather serious indictment of the integrity of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and I certainly do not think that is a general practice. Mr. MCALPINE. I do not say it is a general practice. I am saying it was done. It was told to me that I would do it. Mr. FENTON. I want to be fair about this matter. I have an open mind on the situation. You did not consider yourself a State official? Mr. MCALPINE. No, sir; for the reason, Mr. Congressman, as a fire boss you are certified by the State to act in that capacity but the rank and file miner must also be certified by the State before he can dig a pound of coal. So if he is not a State employee why am I a State employee? The State does not hire me. The State does not fire me. The State does not make any provisions for my labor whatsoever. Mr. FENTON. Suppose an accident happens, who is held responsible for that accident? Mr. MCALPINE. Now, it has been stated here that the responsibility lies on the coal company. If there is any man hurt in that mine through negligence on my part I am the one who is prosecuted by the State and not the coal company. The superintendent does his duty if I violate any of the provisions of the act and cause an injury; he turns me over to the mine inspector, and he prosecutes me in the court of common pleas in the county in which the accident happens. Mr. FENTON. That is why I was very anxious to get your description of these fire bosses. I think it is a very, very important job itself, and I certainly think I never questioned the veracity of a fire boss, whether it be in the anthracite region or the bituminous region, as to a proper report. If a man is covering up something that is wrong in a mine that is a terrible thing. I think that is criminal. I hate to think we have and operators that would stoop to anything like that. Mr. MCALPINE. You have some. Mr. FENTON. You are now the president of this organization? Mr. MCALPINE. That is right. Mr. FENTON. And you have stated you have twelve to fifteen thousand members? Mr. MCALPINE. That is right. Mr. FENTON. You have no members in the anthracite field? Mr. FENTON. I think that is all. The CHAIRMAN. You may revise your statement in any way that you want to. (Whereupon there was discussion off the record.) Mr. KRIMSLY. Mr. Chairman, I was just thinking, I have given this bill very, very careful consideration. I have given it a great deal of study not only as a lawyer but I have given it a study as a lawyer that is familiar with labor practices and labor unions, and I feel quite certain unless I have sufficient time to present this problem that I could not be of use and for that reason I would like to have you give me some definite time when I will be glad to come back here and present those views. The CHAIRMAN. You said something awhile ago about being able to make a statement in a few minutes and we will give you about 25 minutes. Mr. KRIMSLY. I could read off my statement but I am positive that in order to answer all of the questions that will arise it will probably take at least an hour. Now, I feel certain my remarks will be of great value to this committee in forming its opinion on this particular piece of legislation. I have not attacked it as a lawyer. I have attacked it from the practical standpoint and I can cite instances that are concrete and I would like to have an opportunity to be heard when I would not have an ax over my head with regard to time. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will now go into executive session. FULL UTILIZATION OF MANPOWER FRIDAY, APRIL 16, 1943 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON MILITARY AFFAIRS, Washington, D. C. The committee met at 10 a. m., Hon. Andrew J. May, chairman, presiding. The CHAIRMAN. Let the committee come to order. We will continue the hearings on H. R. 2239, H. R. 1742, H. R. 992, H. R. 1728, and other bills which have been consolidated for the purpose of these hearings. STATEMENT OF WALTER MCNALLY, PRESIDENT, INTERNATIONAL UNION OF THE AMERICAN FOREMEN'S UNIONS, AND PRESIDENT OF THE MURRAY ECORSE SUPERVISOR'S ASSOCIATION The CHAIRMAN. Mr. McNally, president of the Murray Ecorse Supervisor's Association, of Ecorse, Mich., is our next witness. Mr. McNally, will you give us your statement, sir? Mr. MCNALLY. Mr. Chairman and members of the House Military Affairs Committee, my name is Walter McNally. I am president of the Murray Ecorse Supervisors' Association; I am also president of the American Foreman's Union, which has headquarters in Wyandotte, Mich. I was employed by the Murray Corporation of America from February 21, 1935, until April 9, 1943. I was a foreman in the employ of the Murray Corporation of America from May 1935 until April 9, 1943. I wish to thank you for this opportunity to be heard in regard to our position on H. R. 2239, the Smith bill. I am not an attorney and will not attempt to speak on the legal technicalities of this bill. I will speak simply as a practical industrial worker who has learned the problem of the supervisory force from actual experience-as a member of that forsaken center group within industry. The 17 supervisors, 15 shift supervisors, and 33 sectional supervisors who comprise the membership of the Murray Ecorse Supervisors' Association have made great personal sacrifices for a cause which we know is just, neamely, the organization of foremen into bona fide unions for the purpose of bargaining collectively through agents of their own choosing. This organization is indeed small by comparison to most labor groups, however, their contribution to the subject under discussion should be heard before decisions are made which would deprive them |