Captain HopwOOD. That is exactly what is done today, Mr. Bradley.

Mr. COLE. I think that we ought to have Captain Hopwood explain the difference between the present operation and the opera tion that would be going on after this bill is adopted.

Captain HOPWOOD. The present operation would continue, as I see it from a reading of this bill, except that in defining specific duties for the Chief of Chaplains, such duties might conflict at certain times with the wishes of the Chief of Naval Personnel in carrying out his over-all obligations.

Mr. COLE. Making him the Chief of the Chaplains Corps would not give him authority above that of the Chief of Personnel.

Captain HOPWOOD. Except that, in prescribing his duties of general coordination and supervision of work, the Chief of Naval Personnel would be bound by law to permit conditions to arise which he might not consider to be in the best interest of the Navy.

Mr. COLE. Now, let me ask you this, is it not presently one of the duties of the director of the Chaplains Corps to investigate the qualifications of candidates for appointment?

Captain HopWOOD. That is true.

Mr. COLE. Is not part of his duties general supervision and coordination of the work of the chaplains?

Captain HOPWOOD. Under the direction of the Chief of Naval Personnel.

Mr. COLE. I can not see where, if this bill is adopted, the authority of the Chief of Chaplains would be any greater than it is now, so long as the corps is left under the jurisdiction of the Chief of the Bureau of Naval Personnel.

Mr. MAAS. As I read the wording of the bill, the coordination would be statutory.

Mr. DREWRY. In my opinion, this is exclusively a matter of the organization of the Navy.

Captain HOPWOOD. It is, sir.

Mr. DREWRY. Then, I wanted to find out whether the Navy was against the enactment of this substitute.

Captain HOPWOOD. No, sir; speaking for the Bureau of Naval Personnel and I have not had an opportunity to get the Secretary's approval—but I have the approval of the Chief of Naval Personnel of this substitute which is recommended by the Chief of Naval Personnel.

The CHAIRMAN. The substitute has been read, and I will read it again.

A BILL To establish a Chief of Chaplains of the United States Navy

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembed, That until the termination of the wars in which the United States is now engaged, or such earlier date as the Congress by concurrent resolution may fix, there may be in the Chaplains Corps of the Navy one officer who shall be entitled to hold the temporary rank of rear admiral, and shall receive the pay and allowances of a rear admiral of the lower half while serving in that grade.

Mr. BRADLEY. If you want to go into that, there is another officer of the Chaplains' Corps here. I do not know whether you wish to hear him, or whether he has something important to say. The

chaplain from the Naval Academy has come up from Annapolis, Captain Thomas.

The CHAIRMAN. We are glad to have you here. We have all had the privilege of going to the academy and joining in with your services.

STATEMENT OF CAPT. WILLIAM N. THOMAS, CHAPLAIN, UNITED STATES NAVY

Captain THOMAS. I do not think that I can add anything to the discussion, unless there are some questions to be asked.

The CHAIRMAN. Later you come over and talk to us, and we will talk with regard to the establishment of a Bureau of Chaplains in the Navy. I think that it is worth while to the committed to take some time in considering that. There is a great deal of merit in it.

Mr. BATES. What have you to say about the substitute offered here by the chairman?

Captain THOMAS. Well, sir I think that, as has been brought out, the needs of a corps cannot be settled now. As the chairman suggested, we will have to get at it step by step, and the substitute, or the bill, either one, is one step in the right direction.

Now, may I say, sir, that my interest in it is not to give rank to a chaplain. I care nothing personally for the rank. I am a clergyman, but for about 26 years I have been trying to tell the people in the churches over the country that the Navy is a religious organization, though it may not always be pious, that its men respect God and they have a keen sense of the values of religion, and the churches have not been told a great deal about the Navy. Since this war has begun, by the flow of clergymen into the services, the churches have learned more about the Navy and they are more interested in the Navy, and I think this bill-one of these bills-giving some recognition to religion by the Navy would go far to give the churches a feeling that the Navy appreciates that interest.

We called on religion to do a lot in this war, and I believe that the religious people of the United States have backed our country up graciously and dutifully.

Mr. BATES. The reason I asked the question was because you observe the Navy is now in opposition to the bill itself, but in favor of the substitute. We ought to go along and do something, and if it is a step in the right direction, then, on the invitation of the chairman, you and the Chief Chaplain can come back in later and suggest the establishment of a separate bureau. The question for us is the substitute which is favored by the Navy, which is a step in the right direction, and whether or not you favor that.

Captain THOMAS. I am not in a position to answer that question because I do not know anything about the difficulties of the administration of the Chaplains' Corps in the Navy. I have never been in the administrative end of it. I have always been on a ship or at a station, and I have never been on duty in Washington. If we can not get the original bill, my personal opinion would be that we ought to be grateful for the substitute.

Mr. COLE. I have an amendment or two. I would like to insert after the words "the wars in which the United States is now engaged," the following language: "by proclamation of the President.”

The CHAIRMAN. We understand that amendment will be included in the substitute.

Mr. COLE. The other amendment is where it says, "there may be in the Chaplains' Corps," that should be changed to read: "there shall be in the Chaplains' Corps."

Mr. BRADLEY. The original bill does have a provision "that until the termination of the wars in which the United States is now engaged or such earlier date as Congress by concurrent resolution may fix." That is in the original bill.

The CHAIRMAN. We have amended the substitute.

Mr. MAAS. I would like to offer for consideration that the language should specify commodore or rear admiral to keep it parallel with the Army, and if the Army goes to a major general, then make the Chief Chaplain a rear admiral.

The CHAIRMAN. Do not do that. If you are going to do something, do it well.

Mr. BATES. I wrestled with that in my own mind, and inasmuch as the Army has been ahead of the Navy, it would do no harm for the Navy to go ahead of the Army.

Mr. RIVERS. Your amendment carries a proviso to make it permanent, or just for the duration?

The CHAIRMAN. Temporary.

Mr. RIVERS. I would like to move at the proper place that there be inserted the following language: "not for the duration of the war, but permanent." I think we can settle that here this morning.

The CHAIRMAN. All those in favor of Mr. Rivers' motion that the rank should be permanent hold up your hands.

(A showing of hands indicated seven for and seven against the proposed amendment.)

The CHAIRMAN. The motion does not prevail.

Mr. RIVERS. I will put it on the floor of the House.

The CHAIRMAN. And we will give you a good chance to make a good speech.

Mr. MAAS. If you try to make it permanent you will kill all chance of getting it passed.

Mr. RIVERS. I will make a better speech for it than the Bureau of Naval Personnel can make against it, I will say that.

The CHAIRMAN. I offer the amendment as a substitute in lieu of H. R. 1023. All in favor of the substitute please hold up your hands. Mr. BRADLEY. Before we vote, it should be pointed out that the difference between that bill and this is that it does not give recognition to the designation of Chief of Chaplains.

(Whereupon a vote was taken.)

The CHAIRMAN. What is the vote?

The CLERK. There are eight ayes and six noes.

The CHAIRMAN. On the motion, the substitute is agreed to, and now the vote comes on the bill as amended by the substitute. Mr. BRADLEY. Amending the whole bill now?

The CHAIRMAN. That is right.

Mr. Clerk, read the whole bill.

(The clerk read the bill as follows:)

A BILL To establish a Chief of Chaplains of the United States Navy

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That until the termination of the wars in which the United States is now engaged, by proclamation of the President, or such earlier date as the Congress by concurrent resolution may fix, there shall be in the Chaplains Corps of the Navy one officer who shall be entitled to hold the temporary rank of rear admiral, and shall receive the pay and allowances of a rear admiral of the lower half while serving in such grade.

The CHAIRMAN. All in favor of the bill as amended, say aye. (The bill is carried.)

The CHAIRMAN. The ayes have it, and the bill is favorably reported by the committee. I will ask Mr. Bradley to present it to the House today.

Mr. BRADLEY. I will present the bill, and I will make a very valiant effort to have an amendment passed creating a Chief of Chaplains.

Mr. COLE. Those of us who supported the chairman in this bill want it understood that our support does not mean that this is the end of the question.

The CHAIRMAN. Captain Workman, will you present in the form of a bill in a short time the establishment of a Chaplains Bureau for the Navy?

Captain WORKMAN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. After January we will try to give you a hearing on it, and I think we will accomplish something along that line.

I think this disposes of everything we have right now. So I think we can take a recess. Congress will take an adjournment soon and there will be nothing else for us unless something happens that the Navy Department decides is very important.

Thank you, gentlemen.

(Whereupon, at 12:25 p .m., the committee recessed.)

[No. 170]

TO AUTHORIZE THE SECRETARY OF THE NAVY TO ACCEPT GIFTS AND BEQUESTS FOR THE UNITED STATES NAVAL ACADEMY, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES (H. R. 3958). MR. VINSON

Hon. SAM RAYBURN,

NAVY DEPARTMENT, Washington, January 11, 1944.

Speaker of the House of Representatives.

MY DEAR MR. SPEAKER: There is transmitted herewith a draft of a proposed bill to authorize the Secretary of the Navy to accept gifts and bequests for the United States Naval Academy, and for other purposes.

The purpose of the proposed bill, as its title indicates, is to provide a ready means for the acceptance of gifts offered to the Naval Academy. In the past offers of gifts of great value have been made to the Academy. Such gifts included sailing yachts and boats for recreational use, paintings and objects of art of traditional and inspirational value, library collections and similar items.

Under existing law, it is necessary to obtain specific legislative authority to accept each individual gift or bequest. An example of such legislation is the act approved April 25, 1936 (49 Stat. 1239) which authorized the Secretary of the Navy to accept on behalf of the United States the collection of ship models bequeathed by the late Col. Henry H. Rogers, of the United States Naval Academy.

Under the provisions of an act approved March 26, 1938 (52 Stat. 119; 34 U. S. C. 1116-1120), the Secretary of the Navy is authorized to accept gifts and bequests for the use and benefit of the United States Naval Academy Museum, but gifts of articles that are not intended for the museum such as boats, cannot be accepted without specific legislation in each case.

The enactment of the proposed legislation will result in no immediate cost to the Government, but the acceptance of some gifts may entail future expenditures for maintenance and operation. Such expenditures would be borne by regular Navy appropriations, but the discretionary power that would be given to the Secretary of the Navy under the proposed bill will guard against the acceptance of gifts that would require excessive costs for maintenance and operation. The Navy Department recommends the enactment of the proposed legislation.

The Navy Department has been advised by the Bureau of the Budget that there would be no objection to the submission of this proposed legislation to the Congress.

Sincerely yours,

FRANK KNOX.